To “have someone's number”












13















Where does the saying




I've got your number




come from?










share|improve this question




















  • 1





    It means " I still know I'm better than you" or "I can beat you anytime"

    – user26848
    Oct 3 '12 at 15:10






  • 1





    Interesting contributions! Seems to me all of these suggestions contain a common thread: the linking of "number" to identity. Interesting to note that the Spanish "nombre" means "name." One's identity is all caught up in one's name, and one's name is one's reputation. A name may be withheld for various reasons: because a stranger looking for someone in a bar always (or almost always) connotes bad news. The secret name of the Old Testament [name for] God is letters that are also words that imply no name but rather something greater than a name (JHWH-->"I am that I am"). Names and nombres and nu

    – user42204
    Apr 10 '13 at 17:03













  • 42204’s Spanish nombre is so fascinating, it almost took my mind off the fact that in 60 years of listening, I’ve never noticed a suggestion of I've got your number including any hint of anyone being better or beaten.

    – Robbie Goodwin
    Nov 10 '17 at 19:08
















13















Where does the saying




I've got your number




come from?










share|improve this question




















  • 1





    It means " I still know I'm better than you" or "I can beat you anytime"

    – user26848
    Oct 3 '12 at 15:10






  • 1





    Interesting contributions! Seems to me all of these suggestions contain a common thread: the linking of "number" to identity. Interesting to note that the Spanish "nombre" means "name." One's identity is all caught up in one's name, and one's name is one's reputation. A name may be withheld for various reasons: because a stranger looking for someone in a bar always (or almost always) connotes bad news. The secret name of the Old Testament [name for] God is letters that are also words that imply no name but rather something greater than a name (JHWH-->"I am that I am"). Names and nombres and nu

    – user42204
    Apr 10 '13 at 17:03













  • 42204’s Spanish nombre is so fascinating, it almost took my mind off the fact that in 60 years of listening, I’ve never noticed a suggestion of I've got your number including any hint of anyone being better or beaten.

    – Robbie Goodwin
    Nov 10 '17 at 19:08














13












13








13


2






Where does the saying




I've got your number




come from?










share|improve this question
















Where does the saying




I've got your number




come from?







etymology phrases popular-refrains






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edited Jul 11 '11 at 16:43









JSBձոգչ

48.3k13141199




48.3k13141199










asked Jul 11 '11 at 16:20









language hackerlanguage hacker

2,7524781111




2,7524781111








  • 1





    It means " I still know I'm better than you" or "I can beat you anytime"

    – user26848
    Oct 3 '12 at 15:10






  • 1





    Interesting contributions! Seems to me all of these suggestions contain a common thread: the linking of "number" to identity. Interesting to note that the Spanish "nombre" means "name." One's identity is all caught up in one's name, and one's name is one's reputation. A name may be withheld for various reasons: because a stranger looking for someone in a bar always (or almost always) connotes bad news. The secret name of the Old Testament [name for] God is letters that are also words that imply no name but rather something greater than a name (JHWH-->"I am that I am"). Names and nombres and nu

    – user42204
    Apr 10 '13 at 17:03













  • 42204’s Spanish nombre is so fascinating, it almost took my mind off the fact that in 60 years of listening, I’ve never noticed a suggestion of I've got your number including any hint of anyone being better or beaten.

    – Robbie Goodwin
    Nov 10 '17 at 19:08














  • 1





    It means " I still know I'm better than you" or "I can beat you anytime"

    – user26848
    Oct 3 '12 at 15:10






  • 1





    Interesting contributions! Seems to me all of these suggestions contain a common thread: the linking of "number" to identity. Interesting to note that the Spanish "nombre" means "name." One's identity is all caught up in one's name, and one's name is one's reputation. A name may be withheld for various reasons: because a stranger looking for someone in a bar always (or almost always) connotes bad news. The secret name of the Old Testament [name for] God is letters that are also words that imply no name but rather something greater than a name (JHWH-->"I am that I am"). Names and nombres and nu

    – user42204
    Apr 10 '13 at 17:03













  • 42204’s Spanish nombre is so fascinating, it almost took my mind off the fact that in 60 years of listening, I’ve never noticed a suggestion of I've got your number including any hint of anyone being better or beaten.

    – Robbie Goodwin
    Nov 10 '17 at 19:08








1




1





It means " I still know I'm better than you" or "I can beat you anytime"

– user26848
Oct 3 '12 at 15:10





It means " I still know I'm better than you" or "I can beat you anytime"

– user26848
Oct 3 '12 at 15:10




1




1





Interesting contributions! Seems to me all of these suggestions contain a common thread: the linking of "number" to identity. Interesting to note that the Spanish "nombre" means "name." One's identity is all caught up in one's name, and one's name is one's reputation. A name may be withheld for various reasons: because a stranger looking for someone in a bar always (or almost always) connotes bad news. The secret name of the Old Testament [name for] God is letters that are also words that imply no name but rather something greater than a name (JHWH-->"I am that I am"). Names and nombres and nu

– user42204
Apr 10 '13 at 17:03







Interesting contributions! Seems to me all of these suggestions contain a common thread: the linking of "number" to identity. Interesting to note that the Spanish "nombre" means "name." One's identity is all caught up in one's name, and one's name is one's reputation. A name may be withheld for various reasons: because a stranger looking for someone in a bar always (or almost always) connotes bad news. The secret name of the Old Testament [name for] God is letters that are also words that imply no name but rather something greater than a name (JHWH-->"I am that I am"). Names and nombres and nu

– user42204
Apr 10 '13 at 17:03















42204’s Spanish nombre is so fascinating, it almost took my mind off the fact that in 60 years of listening, I’ve never noticed a suggestion of I've got your number including any hint of anyone being better or beaten.

– Robbie Goodwin
Nov 10 '17 at 19:08





42204’s Spanish nombre is so fascinating, it almost took my mind off the fact that in 60 years of listening, I’ve never noticed a suggestion of I've got your number including any hint of anyone being better or beaten.

– Robbie Goodwin
Nov 10 '17 at 19:08










11 Answers
11






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6














I found this earlier use of the phrase from a political poem in Volume 7 of Punch, 1844, which might indicate a law-enforcement origin:



http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA261&dq=%22got+your+number%22&ei=MaEbTryfJ9S20AHvoazeBw&ct=result&id=40wPAQAAIAAJ#v=onepage&q=%22got%20your%20number%22&f=false






share|improve this answer
























  • Interesting reference. The phrase's reference here does not seem to be like the 'to figure one out', but rather, literally a number, perhaps the 'buss' number, maybe the driver's license number or most likely, a reference to previous/ regular conviction record. Habitual offenders have 'dossiers' in police records and have permanent numbers assigned.

    – Kris
    Sep 29 '12 at 5:39



















4














The OED associates it with the earlier phrase to take measure [of] ("to form an estimate of; to weigh or gauge the abilities or character of, or assess what to expect from"), which dates from the 17th century.



The earliest citation of get/take/have [one's] number is from Dickens' Bleak House, published in 1853:




Whenever a person proclaims to you ‘In worldly matters I'm a child,’ that person is only a crying off from being held accountable, and you have got that person's number, and it's Number One.







share|improve this answer



















  • 1





    Interesting usage. You'd pretty much have to say that Dickens wrote that in the context of familiarity with the pre-existing idiom, in order to make his sardonic observation about the primary interest of people who disclaim self-interest probably being themselves. So it must have been around in the vernacular before 1853, but not necessarily with such overtly negative associations.

    – FumbleFingers
    Jul 12 '11 at 0:38





















3














I doubt we'll find a definitive "first use", but here is an example from 1915 explicitly making the point that (for some people, at least) the expression was considered "yesterday's slang" even then.



In terms of the semantics, I doubt the origin owes much to actual house address number, telephone number, etc. I think it's a fairly transparent metaphorical usage, indicating that the speaker thinks he's successfully classified the person he's speaking to. And would therefore easily be able to put him into a hypothetical numbered 'pigeonhole', and know where to find him again later.



In most usages today, the expression means something akin to "You can't fool me", meaning the speaker has classified the other person as devious, self-seeking, and untrustworthy. So it's usually derogatory, which it wasn't necessarily in the past.



LATER: Fanciful, perhaps, but I'm quite prepared to believe Dickens's wry observation on the specific case of someone with "Number One" as his number (per @phenry's Answer) could have been influential in causing the expression to shift from positive/neutral understanding of another's primary concerns, to seeing through another's deceit.






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  • "which it wasn't necessarily in the past." Isn't it unnecessary here?

    – Noah
    Aug 11 '12 at 6:49






  • 1





    @Noah:Some people might feasibly think my whole sentence there is a little "awkward", but analysing exactly why seems a bit complicated to me. A more acceptable phrasing would be "So it's usually derogatory, which wasn't necessarily the case in the past.". Trust me though, simply removing the word "it" would render my sentence completely unacceptable to all native speakers.

    – FumbleFingers
    Aug 11 '12 at 14:43



















3














In Revelation 13:18 (KJV) we read:




Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.




These words are usually thought of as pointing to some specific man who fits into the prophecy in the previous verses. You’ve got his number. It’s 666. Now, if you understand the prophecy, figure out who this man is. One popular interpretation in ancient times was that Nero Caesar was the man whose number is 666.



In ancient Greek and Hebrew, every letter of the alphabet also served as a numeral, and thus had a numerical value. Consequently every word, phrase, or name had a numerical value which was the sum of the letter values. And it was believed that one could learn something about the essence of a god or a man by looking at the number of his name, and comparing it to words and phrases that have the same number. This sort of numerology is called gematria if referring to Hebrew, and isopsephy if referring to Greek.



There is no guarantee that the idiom “I’ve got your number” has its origins in the ancient practice of gematria. But it seems pretty obvious that it might. And likewise for metaphorical language such as “he weighed his words carefully” or “he spoke in measured words”.






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  • This is a very inspired answer.

    – New Alexandria
    Sep 29 '12 at 4:40













  • @NewAlexandria inspir-ed ?

    – Kris
    Sep 29 '12 at 5:34













  • @Kris yes, from SPR, the Akkadian & Aramaic root "to count"

    – New Alexandria
    Sep 29 '12 at 16:16



















2














Etymonline reports that:




To get or have (someone's) number "have someone figured out" is attested from 1853.




Sadly it doesn't offer any insight as to how the phrase came about, but clearly it can't be related to telephone numbers.






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    2














    My first-thought also points back to gematria. In this system, each word (thus name) has a numerical value. Correlated with this fact is the ancient practice of summoning (angels/demons).



    Demonic signatures have a numerical value. That number derives from the numerological value of the seal used in the conjuration of the demon. By knowing this number, a magician has power over said demon, e.g. to summon them to do one's bidding. The most famous account of this still re-told today Legemeton that Solomon used to summon Asmodeus & build the First Temple in Jerusalem.



    This assert of power, to compel a demon to do one's bidding, stems from the concept of True Name. YOu can think of this like using a name not to address the person, but to 'address' their soul or or fundamental, primary, essence.



    The concept for this arises from the existence of same number-name correlation for angelic names. These true numerical names are thought to originate from the divine, as a kind of 'programming language' for the Creation.



    From all of this later derived the Numerological lore of thinking that a system for calculating a number for a person's name had introspective power into their true nature.






    share|improve this answer

































      1














      There was BBC timewatch that stated that a 18teenth century shipbuilder had the numbers on workers' clothes and if he saw any slackers they were fired hence,`your number is up.






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        0














        I have in my possession a book first published in 1927 called "I've Got Your Number," by Doris Webster and Mary Alden Hopkins, which was a self-help of book that used numbers to create a personality profile for men and women. The book was apparently very popular and continued in print till at least 1996. The book provides no explanation of how the profiles are arrived at. There is no way to say for sure if this is the origin of the term or merely an outgrowth of it, but I would suspect it may have had a great deal to do with the popularization of the term.






        share|improve this answer































          0














          I have no idea where I've heard this first, last, or even how often - but I've heard it more than a few times as "You've got my number!" as in "You've got me" or "You know my weakness." In that context, it's more or less the same as "Well played, sir."






          share|improve this answer































            -1














            A speculation on the origin of "I've got your number" is a military origin.



            Ballistics, particularly, was a calculated endeavor. I've heard the expression "it's dialed in", or similar, used in relationship to ballistics – and in that context the 'dialing' is the adjustment of guns relative to angle-bearing dials (measures) that aid in precision for accurate shots.




            There's an interesting similarity between having a shot 'dialed in' and, possibly, 'having the number' of the target.







            share|improve this answer































              -2














              Since delving into the enneagram, an ancient wisdom of the personality, I’ve thought thus phrase may come from it. The enneagram assigns numbers 1-9 to the various types.






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              • 1





                Do you have any references to support the claim that this particular and little-known occult practice is the source of such a well-known expression?

                – Chappo
                7 hours ago













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              11 Answers
              11






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              oldest

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              11 Answers
              11






              active

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              active

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              6














              I found this earlier use of the phrase from a political poem in Volume 7 of Punch, 1844, which might indicate a law-enforcement origin:



              http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA261&dq=%22got+your+number%22&ei=MaEbTryfJ9S20AHvoazeBw&ct=result&id=40wPAQAAIAAJ#v=onepage&q=%22got%20your%20number%22&f=false






              share|improve this answer
























              • Interesting reference. The phrase's reference here does not seem to be like the 'to figure one out', but rather, literally a number, perhaps the 'buss' number, maybe the driver's license number or most likely, a reference to previous/ regular conviction record. Habitual offenders have 'dossiers' in police records and have permanent numbers assigned.

                – Kris
                Sep 29 '12 at 5:39
















              6














              I found this earlier use of the phrase from a political poem in Volume 7 of Punch, 1844, which might indicate a law-enforcement origin:



              http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA261&dq=%22got+your+number%22&ei=MaEbTryfJ9S20AHvoazeBw&ct=result&id=40wPAQAAIAAJ#v=onepage&q=%22got%20your%20number%22&f=false






              share|improve this answer
























              • Interesting reference. The phrase's reference here does not seem to be like the 'to figure one out', but rather, literally a number, perhaps the 'buss' number, maybe the driver's license number or most likely, a reference to previous/ regular conviction record. Habitual offenders have 'dossiers' in police records and have permanent numbers assigned.

                – Kris
                Sep 29 '12 at 5:39














              6












              6








              6







              I found this earlier use of the phrase from a political poem in Volume 7 of Punch, 1844, which might indicate a law-enforcement origin:



              http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA261&dq=%22got+your+number%22&ei=MaEbTryfJ9S20AHvoazeBw&ct=result&id=40wPAQAAIAAJ#v=onepage&q=%22got%20your%20number%22&f=false






              share|improve this answer













              I found this earlier use of the phrase from a political poem in Volume 7 of Punch, 1844, which might indicate a law-enforcement origin:



              http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA261&dq=%22got+your+number%22&ei=MaEbTryfJ9S20AHvoazeBw&ct=result&id=40wPAQAAIAAJ#v=onepage&q=%22got%20your%20number%22&f=false







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered Jul 12 '11 at 3:06









              CallithumpianCallithumpian

              22.7k757148




              22.7k757148













              • Interesting reference. The phrase's reference here does not seem to be like the 'to figure one out', but rather, literally a number, perhaps the 'buss' number, maybe the driver's license number or most likely, a reference to previous/ regular conviction record. Habitual offenders have 'dossiers' in police records and have permanent numbers assigned.

                – Kris
                Sep 29 '12 at 5:39



















              • Interesting reference. The phrase's reference here does not seem to be like the 'to figure one out', but rather, literally a number, perhaps the 'buss' number, maybe the driver's license number or most likely, a reference to previous/ regular conviction record. Habitual offenders have 'dossiers' in police records and have permanent numbers assigned.

                – Kris
                Sep 29 '12 at 5:39

















              Interesting reference. The phrase's reference here does not seem to be like the 'to figure one out', but rather, literally a number, perhaps the 'buss' number, maybe the driver's license number or most likely, a reference to previous/ regular conviction record. Habitual offenders have 'dossiers' in police records and have permanent numbers assigned.

              – Kris
              Sep 29 '12 at 5:39





              Interesting reference. The phrase's reference here does not seem to be like the 'to figure one out', but rather, literally a number, perhaps the 'buss' number, maybe the driver's license number or most likely, a reference to previous/ regular conviction record. Habitual offenders have 'dossiers' in police records and have permanent numbers assigned.

              – Kris
              Sep 29 '12 at 5:39













              4














              The OED associates it with the earlier phrase to take measure [of] ("to form an estimate of; to weigh or gauge the abilities or character of, or assess what to expect from"), which dates from the 17th century.



              The earliest citation of get/take/have [one's] number is from Dickens' Bleak House, published in 1853:




              Whenever a person proclaims to you ‘In worldly matters I'm a child,’ that person is only a crying off from being held accountable, and you have got that person's number, and it's Number One.







              share|improve this answer



















              • 1





                Interesting usage. You'd pretty much have to say that Dickens wrote that in the context of familiarity with the pre-existing idiom, in order to make his sardonic observation about the primary interest of people who disclaim self-interest probably being themselves. So it must have been around in the vernacular before 1853, but not necessarily with such overtly negative associations.

                – FumbleFingers
                Jul 12 '11 at 0:38


















              4














              The OED associates it with the earlier phrase to take measure [of] ("to form an estimate of; to weigh or gauge the abilities or character of, or assess what to expect from"), which dates from the 17th century.



              The earliest citation of get/take/have [one's] number is from Dickens' Bleak House, published in 1853:




              Whenever a person proclaims to you ‘In worldly matters I'm a child,’ that person is only a crying off from being held accountable, and you have got that person's number, and it's Number One.







              share|improve this answer



















              • 1





                Interesting usage. You'd pretty much have to say that Dickens wrote that in the context of familiarity with the pre-existing idiom, in order to make his sardonic observation about the primary interest of people who disclaim self-interest probably being themselves. So it must have been around in the vernacular before 1853, but not necessarily with such overtly negative associations.

                – FumbleFingers
                Jul 12 '11 at 0:38
















              4












              4








              4







              The OED associates it with the earlier phrase to take measure [of] ("to form an estimate of; to weigh or gauge the abilities or character of, or assess what to expect from"), which dates from the 17th century.



              The earliest citation of get/take/have [one's] number is from Dickens' Bleak House, published in 1853:




              Whenever a person proclaims to you ‘In worldly matters I'm a child,’ that person is only a crying off from being held accountable, and you have got that person's number, and it's Number One.







              share|improve this answer













              The OED associates it with the earlier phrase to take measure [of] ("to form an estimate of; to weigh or gauge the abilities or character of, or assess what to expect from"), which dates from the 17th century.



              The earliest citation of get/take/have [one's] number is from Dickens' Bleak House, published in 1853:




              Whenever a person proclaims to you ‘In worldly matters I'm a child,’ that person is only a crying off from being held accountable, and you have got that person's number, and it's Number One.








              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered Jul 11 '11 at 16:56









              phenryphenry

              16.5k25176




              16.5k25176








              • 1





                Interesting usage. You'd pretty much have to say that Dickens wrote that in the context of familiarity with the pre-existing idiom, in order to make his sardonic observation about the primary interest of people who disclaim self-interest probably being themselves. So it must have been around in the vernacular before 1853, but not necessarily with such overtly negative associations.

                – FumbleFingers
                Jul 12 '11 at 0:38
















              • 1





                Interesting usage. You'd pretty much have to say that Dickens wrote that in the context of familiarity with the pre-existing idiom, in order to make his sardonic observation about the primary interest of people who disclaim self-interest probably being themselves. So it must have been around in the vernacular before 1853, but not necessarily with such overtly negative associations.

                – FumbleFingers
                Jul 12 '11 at 0:38










              1




              1





              Interesting usage. You'd pretty much have to say that Dickens wrote that in the context of familiarity with the pre-existing idiom, in order to make his sardonic observation about the primary interest of people who disclaim self-interest probably being themselves. So it must have been around in the vernacular before 1853, but not necessarily with such overtly negative associations.

              – FumbleFingers
              Jul 12 '11 at 0:38







              Interesting usage. You'd pretty much have to say that Dickens wrote that in the context of familiarity with the pre-existing idiom, in order to make his sardonic observation about the primary interest of people who disclaim self-interest probably being themselves. So it must have been around in the vernacular before 1853, but not necessarily with such overtly negative associations.

              – FumbleFingers
              Jul 12 '11 at 0:38













              3














              I doubt we'll find a definitive "first use", but here is an example from 1915 explicitly making the point that (for some people, at least) the expression was considered "yesterday's slang" even then.



              In terms of the semantics, I doubt the origin owes much to actual house address number, telephone number, etc. I think it's a fairly transparent metaphorical usage, indicating that the speaker thinks he's successfully classified the person he's speaking to. And would therefore easily be able to put him into a hypothetical numbered 'pigeonhole', and know where to find him again later.



              In most usages today, the expression means something akin to "You can't fool me", meaning the speaker has classified the other person as devious, self-seeking, and untrustworthy. So it's usually derogatory, which it wasn't necessarily in the past.



              LATER: Fanciful, perhaps, but I'm quite prepared to believe Dickens's wry observation on the specific case of someone with "Number One" as his number (per @phenry's Answer) could have been influential in causing the expression to shift from positive/neutral understanding of another's primary concerns, to seeing through another's deceit.






              share|improve this answer


























              • "which it wasn't necessarily in the past." Isn't it unnecessary here?

                – Noah
                Aug 11 '12 at 6:49






              • 1





                @Noah:Some people might feasibly think my whole sentence there is a little "awkward", but analysing exactly why seems a bit complicated to me. A more acceptable phrasing would be "So it's usually derogatory, which wasn't necessarily the case in the past.". Trust me though, simply removing the word "it" would render my sentence completely unacceptable to all native speakers.

                – FumbleFingers
                Aug 11 '12 at 14:43
















              3














              I doubt we'll find a definitive "first use", but here is an example from 1915 explicitly making the point that (for some people, at least) the expression was considered "yesterday's slang" even then.



              In terms of the semantics, I doubt the origin owes much to actual house address number, telephone number, etc. I think it's a fairly transparent metaphorical usage, indicating that the speaker thinks he's successfully classified the person he's speaking to. And would therefore easily be able to put him into a hypothetical numbered 'pigeonhole', and know where to find him again later.



              In most usages today, the expression means something akin to "You can't fool me", meaning the speaker has classified the other person as devious, self-seeking, and untrustworthy. So it's usually derogatory, which it wasn't necessarily in the past.



              LATER: Fanciful, perhaps, but I'm quite prepared to believe Dickens's wry observation on the specific case of someone with "Number One" as his number (per @phenry's Answer) could have been influential in causing the expression to shift from positive/neutral understanding of another's primary concerns, to seeing through another's deceit.






              share|improve this answer


























              • "which it wasn't necessarily in the past." Isn't it unnecessary here?

                – Noah
                Aug 11 '12 at 6:49






              • 1





                @Noah:Some people might feasibly think my whole sentence there is a little "awkward", but analysing exactly why seems a bit complicated to me. A more acceptable phrasing would be "So it's usually derogatory, which wasn't necessarily the case in the past.". Trust me though, simply removing the word "it" would render my sentence completely unacceptable to all native speakers.

                – FumbleFingers
                Aug 11 '12 at 14:43














              3












              3








              3







              I doubt we'll find a definitive "first use", but here is an example from 1915 explicitly making the point that (for some people, at least) the expression was considered "yesterday's slang" even then.



              In terms of the semantics, I doubt the origin owes much to actual house address number, telephone number, etc. I think it's a fairly transparent metaphorical usage, indicating that the speaker thinks he's successfully classified the person he's speaking to. And would therefore easily be able to put him into a hypothetical numbered 'pigeonhole', and know where to find him again later.



              In most usages today, the expression means something akin to "You can't fool me", meaning the speaker has classified the other person as devious, self-seeking, and untrustworthy. So it's usually derogatory, which it wasn't necessarily in the past.



              LATER: Fanciful, perhaps, but I'm quite prepared to believe Dickens's wry observation on the specific case of someone with "Number One" as his number (per @phenry's Answer) could have been influential in causing the expression to shift from positive/neutral understanding of another's primary concerns, to seeing through another's deceit.






              share|improve this answer















              I doubt we'll find a definitive "first use", but here is an example from 1915 explicitly making the point that (for some people, at least) the expression was considered "yesterday's slang" even then.



              In terms of the semantics, I doubt the origin owes much to actual house address number, telephone number, etc. I think it's a fairly transparent metaphorical usage, indicating that the speaker thinks he's successfully classified the person he's speaking to. And would therefore easily be able to put him into a hypothetical numbered 'pigeonhole', and know where to find him again later.



              In most usages today, the expression means something akin to "You can't fool me", meaning the speaker has classified the other person as devious, self-seeking, and untrustworthy. So it's usually derogatory, which it wasn't necessarily in the past.



              LATER: Fanciful, perhaps, but I'm quite prepared to believe Dickens's wry observation on the specific case of someone with "Number One" as his number (per @phenry's Answer) could have been influential in causing the expression to shift from positive/neutral understanding of another's primary concerns, to seeing through another's deceit.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited Jul 12 '11 at 0:47

























              answered Jul 11 '11 at 16:43









              FumbleFingersFumbleFingers

              119k33244424




              119k33244424













              • "which it wasn't necessarily in the past." Isn't it unnecessary here?

                – Noah
                Aug 11 '12 at 6:49






              • 1





                @Noah:Some people might feasibly think my whole sentence there is a little "awkward", but analysing exactly why seems a bit complicated to me. A more acceptable phrasing would be "So it's usually derogatory, which wasn't necessarily the case in the past.". Trust me though, simply removing the word "it" would render my sentence completely unacceptable to all native speakers.

                – FumbleFingers
                Aug 11 '12 at 14:43



















              • "which it wasn't necessarily in the past." Isn't it unnecessary here?

                – Noah
                Aug 11 '12 at 6:49






              • 1





                @Noah:Some people might feasibly think my whole sentence there is a little "awkward", but analysing exactly why seems a bit complicated to me. A more acceptable phrasing would be "So it's usually derogatory, which wasn't necessarily the case in the past.". Trust me though, simply removing the word "it" would render my sentence completely unacceptable to all native speakers.

                – FumbleFingers
                Aug 11 '12 at 14:43

















              "which it wasn't necessarily in the past." Isn't it unnecessary here?

              – Noah
              Aug 11 '12 at 6:49





              "which it wasn't necessarily in the past." Isn't it unnecessary here?

              – Noah
              Aug 11 '12 at 6:49




              1




              1





              @Noah:Some people might feasibly think my whole sentence there is a little "awkward", but analysing exactly why seems a bit complicated to me. A more acceptable phrasing would be "So it's usually derogatory, which wasn't necessarily the case in the past.". Trust me though, simply removing the word "it" would render my sentence completely unacceptable to all native speakers.

              – FumbleFingers
              Aug 11 '12 at 14:43





              @Noah:Some people might feasibly think my whole sentence there is a little "awkward", but analysing exactly why seems a bit complicated to me. A more acceptable phrasing would be "So it's usually derogatory, which wasn't necessarily the case in the past.". Trust me though, simply removing the word "it" would render my sentence completely unacceptable to all native speakers.

              – FumbleFingers
              Aug 11 '12 at 14:43











              3














              In Revelation 13:18 (KJV) we read:




              Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.




              These words are usually thought of as pointing to some specific man who fits into the prophecy in the previous verses. You’ve got his number. It’s 666. Now, if you understand the prophecy, figure out who this man is. One popular interpretation in ancient times was that Nero Caesar was the man whose number is 666.



              In ancient Greek and Hebrew, every letter of the alphabet also served as a numeral, and thus had a numerical value. Consequently every word, phrase, or name had a numerical value which was the sum of the letter values. And it was believed that one could learn something about the essence of a god or a man by looking at the number of his name, and comparing it to words and phrases that have the same number. This sort of numerology is called gematria if referring to Hebrew, and isopsephy if referring to Greek.



              There is no guarantee that the idiom “I’ve got your number” has its origins in the ancient practice of gematria. But it seems pretty obvious that it might. And likewise for metaphorical language such as “he weighed his words carefully” or “he spoke in measured words”.






              share|improve this answer


























              • This is a very inspired answer.

                – New Alexandria
                Sep 29 '12 at 4:40













              • @NewAlexandria inspir-ed ?

                – Kris
                Sep 29 '12 at 5:34













              • @Kris yes, from SPR, the Akkadian & Aramaic root "to count"

                – New Alexandria
                Sep 29 '12 at 16:16
















              3














              In Revelation 13:18 (KJV) we read:




              Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.




              These words are usually thought of as pointing to some specific man who fits into the prophecy in the previous verses. You’ve got his number. It’s 666. Now, if you understand the prophecy, figure out who this man is. One popular interpretation in ancient times was that Nero Caesar was the man whose number is 666.



              In ancient Greek and Hebrew, every letter of the alphabet also served as a numeral, and thus had a numerical value. Consequently every word, phrase, or name had a numerical value which was the sum of the letter values. And it was believed that one could learn something about the essence of a god or a man by looking at the number of his name, and comparing it to words and phrases that have the same number. This sort of numerology is called gematria if referring to Hebrew, and isopsephy if referring to Greek.



              There is no guarantee that the idiom “I’ve got your number” has its origins in the ancient practice of gematria. But it seems pretty obvious that it might. And likewise for metaphorical language such as “he weighed his words carefully” or “he spoke in measured words”.






              share|improve this answer


























              • This is a very inspired answer.

                – New Alexandria
                Sep 29 '12 at 4:40













              • @NewAlexandria inspir-ed ?

                – Kris
                Sep 29 '12 at 5:34













              • @Kris yes, from SPR, the Akkadian & Aramaic root "to count"

                – New Alexandria
                Sep 29 '12 at 16:16














              3












              3








              3







              In Revelation 13:18 (KJV) we read:




              Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.




              These words are usually thought of as pointing to some specific man who fits into the prophecy in the previous verses. You’ve got his number. It’s 666. Now, if you understand the prophecy, figure out who this man is. One popular interpretation in ancient times was that Nero Caesar was the man whose number is 666.



              In ancient Greek and Hebrew, every letter of the alphabet also served as a numeral, and thus had a numerical value. Consequently every word, phrase, or name had a numerical value which was the sum of the letter values. And it was believed that one could learn something about the essence of a god or a man by looking at the number of his name, and comparing it to words and phrases that have the same number. This sort of numerology is called gematria if referring to Hebrew, and isopsephy if referring to Greek.



              There is no guarantee that the idiom “I’ve got your number” has its origins in the ancient practice of gematria. But it seems pretty obvious that it might. And likewise for metaphorical language such as “he weighed his words carefully” or “he spoke in measured words”.






              share|improve this answer















              In Revelation 13:18 (KJV) we read:




              Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.




              These words are usually thought of as pointing to some specific man who fits into the prophecy in the previous verses. You’ve got his number. It’s 666. Now, if you understand the prophecy, figure out who this man is. One popular interpretation in ancient times was that Nero Caesar was the man whose number is 666.



              In ancient Greek and Hebrew, every letter of the alphabet also served as a numeral, and thus had a numerical value. Consequently every word, phrase, or name had a numerical value which was the sum of the letter values. And it was believed that one could learn something about the essence of a god or a man by looking at the number of his name, and comparing it to words and phrases that have the same number. This sort of numerology is called gematria if referring to Hebrew, and isopsephy if referring to Greek.



              There is no guarantee that the idiom “I’ve got your number” has its origins in the ancient practice of gematria. But it seems pretty obvious that it might. And likewise for metaphorical language such as “he weighed his words carefully” or “he spoke in measured words”.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited Aug 12 '12 at 4:34









              MetaEd

              25.4k1371122




              25.4k1371122










              answered Aug 11 '12 at 6:02









              Judson PewtherJudson Pewther

              311




              311













              • This is a very inspired answer.

                – New Alexandria
                Sep 29 '12 at 4:40













              • @NewAlexandria inspir-ed ?

                – Kris
                Sep 29 '12 at 5:34













              • @Kris yes, from SPR, the Akkadian & Aramaic root "to count"

                – New Alexandria
                Sep 29 '12 at 16:16



















              • This is a very inspired answer.

                – New Alexandria
                Sep 29 '12 at 4:40













              • @NewAlexandria inspir-ed ?

                – Kris
                Sep 29 '12 at 5:34













              • @Kris yes, from SPR, the Akkadian & Aramaic root "to count"

                – New Alexandria
                Sep 29 '12 at 16:16

















              This is a very inspired answer.

              – New Alexandria
              Sep 29 '12 at 4:40







              This is a very inspired answer.

              – New Alexandria
              Sep 29 '12 at 4:40















              @NewAlexandria inspir-ed ?

              – Kris
              Sep 29 '12 at 5:34







              @NewAlexandria inspir-ed ?

              – Kris
              Sep 29 '12 at 5:34















              @Kris yes, from SPR, the Akkadian & Aramaic root "to count"

              – New Alexandria
              Sep 29 '12 at 16:16





              @Kris yes, from SPR, the Akkadian & Aramaic root "to count"

              – New Alexandria
              Sep 29 '12 at 16:16











              2














              Etymonline reports that:




              To get or have (someone's) number "have someone figured out" is attested from 1853.




              Sadly it doesn't offer any insight as to how the phrase came about, but clearly it can't be related to telephone numbers.






              share|improve this answer




























                2














                Etymonline reports that:




                To get or have (someone's) number "have someone figured out" is attested from 1853.




                Sadly it doesn't offer any insight as to how the phrase came about, but clearly it can't be related to telephone numbers.






                share|improve this answer


























                  2












                  2








                  2







                  Etymonline reports that:




                  To get or have (someone's) number "have someone figured out" is attested from 1853.




                  Sadly it doesn't offer any insight as to how the phrase came about, but clearly it can't be related to telephone numbers.






                  share|improve this answer













                  Etymonline reports that:




                  To get or have (someone's) number "have someone figured out" is attested from 1853.




                  Sadly it doesn't offer any insight as to how the phrase came about, but clearly it can't be related to telephone numbers.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered Jul 11 '11 at 16:53







                  user1579






























                      2














                      My first-thought also points back to gematria. In this system, each word (thus name) has a numerical value. Correlated with this fact is the ancient practice of summoning (angels/demons).



                      Demonic signatures have a numerical value. That number derives from the numerological value of the seal used in the conjuration of the demon. By knowing this number, a magician has power over said demon, e.g. to summon them to do one's bidding. The most famous account of this still re-told today Legemeton that Solomon used to summon Asmodeus & build the First Temple in Jerusalem.



                      This assert of power, to compel a demon to do one's bidding, stems from the concept of True Name. YOu can think of this like using a name not to address the person, but to 'address' their soul or or fundamental, primary, essence.



                      The concept for this arises from the existence of same number-name correlation for angelic names. These true numerical names are thought to originate from the divine, as a kind of 'programming language' for the Creation.



                      From all of this later derived the Numerological lore of thinking that a system for calculating a number for a person's name had introspective power into their true nature.






                      share|improve this answer






























                        2














                        My first-thought also points back to gematria. In this system, each word (thus name) has a numerical value. Correlated with this fact is the ancient practice of summoning (angels/demons).



                        Demonic signatures have a numerical value. That number derives from the numerological value of the seal used in the conjuration of the demon. By knowing this number, a magician has power over said demon, e.g. to summon them to do one's bidding. The most famous account of this still re-told today Legemeton that Solomon used to summon Asmodeus & build the First Temple in Jerusalem.



                        This assert of power, to compel a demon to do one's bidding, stems from the concept of True Name. YOu can think of this like using a name not to address the person, but to 'address' their soul or or fundamental, primary, essence.



                        The concept for this arises from the existence of same number-name correlation for angelic names. These true numerical names are thought to originate from the divine, as a kind of 'programming language' for the Creation.



                        From all of this later derived the Numerological lore of thinking that a system for calculating a number for a person's name had introspective power into their true nature.






                        share|improve this answer




























                          2












                          2








                          2







                          My first-thought also points back to gematria. In this system, each word (thus name) has a numerical value. Correlated with this fact is the ancient practice of summoning (angels/demons).



                          Demonic signatures have a numerical value. That number derives from the numerological value of the seal used in the conjuration of the demon. By knowing this number, a magician has power over said demon, e.g. to summon them to do one's bidding. The most famous account of this still re-told today Legemeton that Solomon used to summon Asmodeus & build the First Temple in Jerusalem.



                          This assert of power, to compel a demon to do one's bidding, stems from the concept of True Name. YOu can think of this like using a name not to address the person, but to 'address' their soul or or fundamental, primary, essence.



                          The concept for this arises from the existence of same number-name correlation for angelic names. These true numerical names are thought to originate from the divine, as a kind of 'programming language' for the Creation.



                          From all of this later derived the Numerological lore of thinking that a system for calculating a number for a person's name had introspective power into their true nature.






                          share|improve this answer















                          My first-thought also points back to gematria. In this system, each word (thus name) has a numerical value. Correlated with this fact is the ancient practice of summoning (angels/demons).



                          Demonic signatures have a numerical value. That number derives from the numerological value of the seal used in the conjuration of the demon. By knowing this number, a magician has power over said demon, e.g. to summon them to do one's bidding. The most famous account of this still re-told today Legemeton that Solomon used to summon Asmodeus & build the First Temple in Jerusalem.



                          This assert of power, to compel a demon to do one's bidding, stems from the concept of True Name. YOu can think of this like using a name not to address the person, but to 'address' their soul or or fundamental, primary, essence.



                          The concept for this arises from the existence of same number-name correlation for angelic names. These true numerical names are thought to originate from the divine, as a kind of 'programming language' for the Creation.



                          From all of this later derived the Numerological lore of thinking that a system for calculating a number for a person's name had introspective power into their true nature.







                          share|improve this answer














                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer








                          edited Sep 29 '12 at 15:57

























                          answered Sep 29 '12 at 4:44









                          New AlexandriaNew Alexandria

                          3,30611635




                          3,30611635























                              1














                              There was BBC timewatch that stated that a 18teenth century shipbuilder had the numbers on workers' clothes and if he saw any slackers they were fired hence,`your number is up.






                              share|improve this answer




























                                1














                                There was BBC timewatch that stated that a 18teenth century shipbuilder had the numbers on workers' clothes and if he saw any slackers they were fired hence,`your number is up.






                                share|improve this answer


























                                  1












                                  1








                                  1







                                  There was BBC timewatch that stated that a 18teenth century shipbuilder had the numbers on workers' clothes and if he saw any slackers they were fired hence,`your number is up.






                                  share|improve this answer













                                  There was BBC timewatch that stated that a 18teenth century shipbuilder had the numbers on workers' clothes and if he saw any slackers they were fired hence,`your number is up.







                                  share|improve this answer












                                  share|improve this answer



                                  share|improve this answer










                                  answered Oct 18 '15 at 11:28









                                  Tony RichardsonTony Richardson

                                  112




                                  112























                                      0














                                      I have in my possession a book first published in 1927 called "I've Got Your Number," by Doris Webster and Mary Alden Hopkins, which was a self-help of book that used numbers to create a personality profile for men and women. The book was apparently very popular and continued in print till at least 1996. The book provides no explanation of how the profiles are arrived at. There is no way to say for sure if this is the origin of the term or merely an outgrowth of it, but I would suspect it may have had a great deal to do with the popularization of the term.






                                      share|improve this answer




























                                        0














                                        I have in my possession a book first published in 1927 called "I've Got Your Number," by Doris Webster and Mary Alden Hopkins, which was a self-help of book that used numbers to create a personality profile for men and women. The book was apparently very popular and continued in print till at least 1996. The book provides no explanation of how the profiles are arrived at. There is no way to say for sure if this is the origin of the term or merely an outgrowth of it, but I would suspect it may have had a great deal to do with the popularization of the term.






                                        share|improve this answer


























                                          0












                                          0








                                          0







                                          I have in my possession a book first published in 1927 called "I've Got Your Number," by Doris Webster and Mary Alden Hopkins, which was a self-help of book that used numbers to create a personality profile for men and women. The book was apparently very popular and continued in print till at least 1996. The book provides no explanation of how the profiles are arrived at. There is no way to say for sure if this is the origin of the term or merely an outgrowth of it, but I would suspect it may have had a great deal to do with the popularization of the term.






                                          share|improve this answer













                                          I have in my possession a book first published in 1927 called "I've Got Your Number," by Doris Webster and Mary Alden Hopkins, which was a self-help of book that used numbers to create a personality profile for men and women. The book was apparently very popular and continued in print till at least 1996. The book provides no explanation of how the profiles are arrived at. There is no way to say for sure if this is the origin of the term or merely an outgrowth of it, but I would suspect it may have had a great deal to do with the popularization of the term.







                                          share|improve this answer












                                          share|improve this answer



                                          share|improve this answer










                                          answered Mar 1 '13 at 14:50









                                          user38535user38535

                                          1




                                          1























                                              0














                                              I have no idea where I've heard this first, last, or even how often - but I've heard it more than a few times as "You've got my number!" as in "You've got me" or "You know my weakness." In that context, it's more or less the same as "Well played, sir."






                                              share|improve this answer




























                                                0














                                                I have no idea where I've heard this first, last, or even how often - but I've heard it more than a few times as "You've got my number!" as in "You've got me" or "You know my weakness." In that context, it's more or less the same as "Well played, sir."






                                                share|improve this answer


























                                                  0












                                                  0








                                                  0







                                                  I have no idea where I've heard this first, last, or even how often - but I've heard it more than a few times as "You've got my number!" as in "You've got me" or "You know my weakness." In that context, it's more or less the same as "Well played, sir."






                                                  share|improve this answer













                                                  I have no idea where I've heard this first, last, or even how often - but I've heard it more than a few times as "You've got my number!" as in "You've got me" or "You know my weakness." In that context, it's more or less the same as "Well played, sir."







                                                  share|improve this answer












                                                  share|improve this answer



                                                  share|improve this answer










                                                  answered Apr 14 '17 at 14:31









                                                  Noah H.Noah H.

                                                  1




                                                  1























                                                      -1














                                                      A speculation on the origin of "I've got your number" is a military origin.



                                                      Ballistics, particularly, was a calculated endeavor. I've heard the expression "it's dialed in", or similar, used in relationship to ballistics – and in that context the 'dialing' is the adjustment of guns relative to angle-bearing dials (measures) that aid in precision for accurate shots.




                                                      There's an interesting similarity between having a shot 'dialed in' and, possibly, 'having the number' of the target.







                                                      share|improve this answer




























                                                        -1














                                                        A speculation on the origin of "I've got your number" is a military origin.



                                                        Ballistics, particularly, was a calculated endeavor. I've heard the expression "it's dialed in", or similar, used in relationship to ballistics – and in that context the 'dialing' is the adjustment of guns relative to angle-bearing dials (measures) that aid in precision for accurate shots.




                                                        There's an interesting similarity between having a shot 'dialed in' and, possibly, 'having the number' of the target.







                                                        share|improve this answer


























                                                          -1












                                                          -1








                                                          -1







                                                          A speculation on the origin of "I've got your number" is a military origin.



                                                          Ballistics, particularly, was a calculated endeavor. I've heard the expression "it's dialed in", or similar, used in relationship to ballistics – and in that context the 'dialing' is the adjustment of guns relative to angle-bearing dials (measures) that aid in precision for accurate shots.




                                                          There's an interesting similarity between having a shot 'dialed in' and, possibly, 'having the number' of the target.







                                                          share|improve this answer













                                                          A speculation on the origin of "I've got your number" is a military origin.



                                                          Ballistics, particularly, was a calculated endeavor. I've heard the expression "it's dialed in", or similar, used in relationship to ballistics – and in that context the 'dialing' is the adjustment of guns relative to angle-bearing dials (measures) that aid in precision for accurate shots.




                                                          There's an interesting similarity between having a shot 'dialed in' and, possibly, 'having the number' of the target.








                                                          share|improve this answer












                                                          share|improve this answer



                                                          share|improve this answer










                                                          answered Sep 29 '12 at 16:24









                                                          New AlexandriaNew Alexandria

                                                          3,30611635




                                                          3,30611635























                                                              -2














                                                              Since delving into the enneagram, an ancient wisdom of the personality, I’ve thought thus phrase may come from it. The enneagram assigns numbers 1-9 to the various types.






                                                              share|improve this answer








                                                              New contributor




                                                              Shanbamafan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                                                              • 1





                                                                Do you have any references to support the claim that this particular and little-known occult practice is the source of such a well-known expression?

                                                                – Chappo
                                                                7 hours ago


















                                                              -2














                                                              Since delving into the enneagram, an ancient wisdom of the personality, I’ve thought thus phrase may come from it. The enneagram assigns numbers 1-9 to the various types.






                                                              share|improve this answer








                                                              New contributor




                                                              Shanbamafan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                              Check out our Code of Conduct.
















                                                              • 1





                                                                Do you have any references to support the claim that this particular and little-known occult practice is the source of such a well-known expression?

                                                                – Chappo
                                                                7 hours ago
















                                                              -2












                                                              -2








                                                              -2







                                                              Since delving into the enneagram, an ancient wisdom of the personality, I’ve thought thus phrase may come from it. The enneagram assigns numbers 1-9 to the various types.






                                                              share|improve this answer








                                                              New contributor




                                                              Shanbamafan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                              Check out our Code of Conduct.










                                                              Since delving into the enneagram, an ancient wisdom of the personality, I’ve thought thus phrase may come from it. The enneagram assigns numbers 1-9 to the various types.







                                                              share|improve this answer








                                                              New contributor




                                                              Shanbamafan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                              Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                                              share|improve this answer



                                                              share|improve this answer






                                                              New contributor




                                                              Shanbamafan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                                                              answered 7 hours ago









                                                              ShanbamafanShanbamafan

                                                              1




                                                              1




                                                              New contributor




                                                              Shanbamafan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                              Check out our Code of Conduct.





                                                              New contributor





                                                              Shanbamafan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                              Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                                              Shanbamafan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                              Check out our Code of Conduct.








                                                              • 1





                                                                Do you have any references to support the claim that this particular and little-known occult practice is the source of such a well-known expression?

                                                                – Chappo
                                                                7 hours ago
















                                                              • 1





                                                                Do you have any references to support the claim that this particular and little-known occult practice is the source of such a well-known expression?

                                                                – Chappo
                                                                7 hours ago










                                                              1




                                                              1





                                                              Do you have any references to support the claim that this particular and little-known occult practice is the source of such a well-known expression?

                                                              – Chappo
                                                              7 hours ago







                                                              Do you have any references to support the claim that this particular and little-known occult practice is the source of such a well-known expression?

                                                              – Chappo
                                                              7 hours ago




















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