“Cheaper by the dozen” phrase origin?












9















Over on Politics.Meta.SE a comment by user Guest271314 asserts a repugnant etymology:




...You cannot expect readers to parse when you are engaging in direct communication or "colloquially" speaking. For example, "cheaper by the dozen" is a "colloquial" English term that actually refers to plantation owners forcing prisoners of war to impregnate their mother, resulting in a "dozen" "cheap" children with severe birth defects.

– guest271314 Jan 17 at 18:59




On the other hand, Google Ngram has nothing from the 19th century that remotely suggests such an origin. Its earliest Ngram usage is from The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, March 1844, and refers to copies of a Masonic handbook for sale.



What is the origin of the phrase "cheaper by the dozen"?










share|improve this question


















  • 11





    I've heard the term used in many different contexts, often with less than complimentary innuendo attached. But it's hard to believe that the origin isn't street barkers yelling "One pence a piece -- cheaper by the dozen."

    – Hot Licks
    12 hours ago






  • 12





    I don’t believe guest271314’s assertion. You should ask them to prove it.

    – Jim
    12 hours ago






  • 2





    Street barkers wouldn't have yelled "One pence apiece". "One penny", or more likely, "a penny". Pence is the plural of penny. That is not to say that "one pence" is not a thing in British usage, but it is an illiterate and non-standard thing that came in after decimalisation in 1971, when barkers were long gone.

    – Michael Harvey
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    @agc If accurately recollect, the knowledge of the origin or usage of the phrase was shared by the late Dick Gregory. Since Dick Gregory has thousands of hours of interviews, lectures and volumes of published literature, may take some time to locate the actual quote, or description of use of the term. It should not be surprising. The quote describes the practices of colonial and later U.S. persons and entities who experimented on prisoners of war (referred to as "slaves") by englishmen; there would be no modern medicine without those intentional diabolical practices e.g see Medical Apartheid

    – guest271314
    5 hours ago








  • 1





    @agc This interview begins with how the word honky came about by so-called "white" men visiting whore houses to buy sex from so-called "black" women and honking their horn. The interview also mentions the practice of young male forcing prisoners of war (so-called "slaves") to have sex with their mother in what is now called "United States": the purpose was to create more "slaves": that is where the word motherfucker comes from Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes. Though will continue to look for the exact reference

    – guest271314
    5 hours ago


















9















Over on Politics.Meta.SE a comment by user Guest271314 asserts a repugnant etymology:




...You cannot expect readers to parse when you are engaging in direct communication or "colloquially" speaking. For example, "cheaper by the dozen" is a "colloquial" English term that actually refers to plantation owners forcing prisoners of war to impregnate their mother, resulting in a "dozen" "cheap" children with severe birth defects.

– guest271314 Jan 17 at 18:59




On the other hand, Google Ngram has nothing from the 19th century that remotely suggests such an origin. Its earliest Ngram usage is from The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, March 1844, and refers to copies of a Masonic handbook for sale.



What is the origin of the phrase "cheaper by the dozen"?










share|improve this question


















  • 11





    I've heard the term used in many different contexts, often with less than complimentary innuendo attached. But it's hard to believe that the origin isn't street barkers yelling "One pence a piece -- cheaper by the dozen."

    – Hot Licks
    12 hours ago






  • 12





    I don’t believe guest271314’s assertion. You should ask them to prove it.

    – Jim
    12 hours ago






  • 2





    Street barkers wouldn't have yelled "One pence apiece". "One penny", or more likely, "a penny". Pence is the plural of penny. That is not to say that "one pence" is not a thing in British usage, but it is an illiterate and non-standard thing that came in after decimalisation in 1971, when barkers were long gone.

    – Michael Harvey
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    @agc If accurately recollect, the knowledge of the origin or usage of the phrase was shared by the late Dick Gregory. Since Dick Gregory has thousands of hours of interviews, lectures and volumes of published literature, may take some time to locate the actual quote, or description of use of the term. It should not be surprising. The quote describes the practices of colonial and later U.S. persons and entities who experimented on prisoners of war (referred to as "slaves") by englishmen; there would be no modern medicine without those intentional diabolical practices e.g see Medical Apartheid

    – guest271314
    5 hours ago








  • 1





    @agc This interview begins with how the word honky came about by so-called "white" men visiting whore houses to buy sex from so-called "black" women and honking their horn. The interview also mentions the practice of young male forcing prisoners of war (so-called "slaves") to have sex with their mother in what is now called "United States": the purpose was to create more "slaves": that is where the word motherfucker comes from Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes. Though will continue to look for the exact reference

    – guest271314
    5 hours ago
















9












9








9


2






Over on Politics.Meta.SE a comment by user Guest271314 asserts a repugnant etymology:




...You cannot expect readers to parse when you are engaging in direct communication or "colloquially" speaking. For example, "cheaper by the dozen" is a "colloquial" English term that actually refers to plantation owners forcing prisoners of war to impregnate their mother, resulting in a "dozen" "cheap" children with severe birth defects.

– guest271314 Jan 17 at 18:59




On the other hand, Google Ngram has nothing from the 19th century that remotely suggests such an origin. Its earliest Ngram usage is from The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, March 1844, and refers to copies of a Masonic handbook for sale.



What is the origin of the phrase "cheaper by the dozen"?










share|improve this question














Over on Politics.Meta.SE a comment by user Guest271314 asserts a repugnant etymology:




...You cannot expect readers to parse when you are engaging in direct communication or "colloquially" speaking. For example, "cheaper by the dozen" is a "colloquial" English term that actually refers to plantation owners forcing prisoners of war to impregnate their mother, resulting in a "dozen" "cheap" children with severe birth defects.

– guest271314 Jan 17 at 18:59




On the other hand, Google Ngram has nothing from the 19th century that remotely suggests such an origin. Its earliest Ngram usage is from The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, March 1844, and refers to copies of a Masonic handbook for sale.



What is the origin of the phrase "cheaper by the dozen"?







idioms phrase-origin






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 13 hours ago









agcagc

2,556625




2,556625








  • 11





    I've heard the term used in many different contexts, often with less than complimentary innuendo attached. But it's hard to believe that the origin isn't street barkers yelling "One pence a piece -- cheaper by the dozen."

    – Hot Licks
    12 hours ago






  • 12





    I don’t believe guest271314’s assertion. You should ask them to prove it.

    – Jim
    12 hours ago






  • 2





    Street barkers wouldn't have yelled "One pence apiece". "One penny", or more likely, "a penny". Pence is the plural of penny. That is not to say that "one pence" is not a thing in British usage, but it is an illiterate and non-standard thing that came in after decimalisation in 1971, when barkers were long gone.

    – Michael Harvey
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    @agc If accurately recollect, the knowledge of the origin or usage of the phrase was shared by the late Dick Gregory. Since Dick Gregory has thousands of hours of interviews, lectures and volumes of published literature, may take some time to locate the actual quote, or description of use of the term. It should not be surprising. The quote describes the practices of colonial and later U.S. persons and entities who experimented on prisoners of war (referred to as "slaves") by englishmen; there would be no modern medicine without those intentional diabolical practices e.g see Medical Apartheid

    – guest271314
    5 hours ago








  • 1





    @agc This interview begins with how the word honky came about by so-called "white" men visiting whore houses to buy sex from so-called "black" women and honking their horn. The interview also mentions the practice of young male forcing prisoners of war (so-called "slaves") to have sex with their mother in what is now called "United States": the purpose was to create more "slaves": that is where the word motherfucker comes from Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes. Though will continue to look for the exact reference

    – guest271314
    5 hours ago
















  • 11





    I've heard the term used in many different contexts, often with less than complimentary innuendo attached. But it's hard to believe that the origin isn't street barkers yelling "One pence a piece -- cheaper by the dozen."

    – Hot Licks
    12 hours ago






  • 12





    I don’t believe guest271314’s assertion. You should ask them to prove it.

    – Jim
    12 hours ago






  • 2





    Street barkers wouldn't have yelled "One pence apiece". "One penny", or more likely, "a penny". Pence is the plural of penny. That is not to say that "one pence" is not a thing in British usage, but it is an illiterate and non-standard thing that came in after decimalisation in 1971, when barkers were long gone.

    – Michael Harvey
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    @agc If accurately recollect, the knowledge of the origin or usage of the phrase was shared by the late Dick Gregory. Since Dick Gregory has thousands of hours of interviews, lectures and volumes of published literature, may take some time to locate the actual quote, or description of use of the term. It should not be surprising. The quote describes the practices of colonial and later U.S. persons and entities who experimented on prisoners of war (referred to as "slaves") by englishmen; there would be no modern medicine without those intentional diabolical practices e.g see Medical Apartheid

    – guest271314
    5 hours ago








  • 1





    @agc This interview begins with how the word honky came about by so-called "white" men visiting whore houses to buy sex from so-called "black" women and honking their horn. The interview also mentions the practice of young male forcing prisoners of war (so-called "slaves") to have sex with their mother in what is now called "United States": the purpose was to create more "slaves": that is where the word motherfucker comes from Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes. Though will continue to look for the exact reference

    – guest271314
    5 hours ago










11




11





I've heard the term used in many different contexts, often with less than complimentary innuendo attached. But it's hard to believe that the origin isn't street barkers yelling "One pence a piece -- cheaper by the dozen."

– Hot Licks
12 hours ago





I've heard the term used in many different contexts, often with less than complimentary innuendo attached. But it's hard to believe that the origin isn't street barkers yelling "One pence a piece -- cheaper by the dozen."

– Hot Licks
12 hours ago




12




12





I don’t believe guest271314’s assertion. You should ask them to prove it.

– Jim
12 hours ago





I don’t believe guest271314’s assertion. You should ask them to prove it.

– Jim
12 hours ago




2




2





Street barkers wouldn't have yelled "One pence apiece". "One penny", or more likely, "a penny". Pence is the plural of penny. That is not to say that "one pence" is not a thing in British usage, but it is an illiterate and non-standard thing that came in after decimalisation in 1971, when barkers were long gone.

– Michael Harvey
10 hours ago





Street barkers wouldn't have yelled "One pence apiece". "One penny", or more likely, "a penny". Pence is the plural of penny. That is not to say that "one pence" is not a thing in British usage, but it is an illiterate and non-standard thing that came in after decimalisation in 1971, when barkers were long gone.

– Michael Harvey
10 hours ago




1




1





@agc If accurately recollect, the knowledge of the origin or usage of the phrase was shared by the late Dick Gregory. Since Dick Gregory has thousands of hours of interviews, lectures and volumes of published literature, may take some time to locate the actual quote, or description of use of the term. It should not be surprising. The quote describes the practices of colonial and later U.S. persons and entities who experimented on prisoners of war (referred to as "slaves") by englishmen; there would be no modern medicine without those intentional diabolical practices e.g see Medical Apartheid

– guest271314
5 hours ago







@agc If accurately recollect, the knowledge of the origin or usage of the phrase was shared by the late Dick Gregory. Since Dick Gregory has thousands of hours of interviews, lectures and volumes of published literature, may take some time to locate the actual quote, or description of use of the term. It should not be surprising. The quote describes the practices of colonial and later U.S. persons and entities who experimented on prisoners of war (referred to as "slaves") by englishmen; there would be no modern medicine without those intentional diabolical practices e.g see Medical Apartheid

– guest271314
5 hours ago






1




1





@agc This interview begins with how the word honky came about by so-called "white" men visiting whore houses to buy sex from so-called "black" women and honking their horn. The interview also mentions the practice of young male forcing prisoners of war (so-called "slaves") to have sex with their mother in what is now called "United States": the purpose was to create more "slaves": that is where the word motherfucker comes from Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes. Though will continue to look for the exact reference

– guest271314
5 hours ago







@agc This interview begins with how the word honky came about by so-called "white" men visiting whore houses to buy sex from so-called "black" women and honking their horn. The interview also mentions the practice of young male forcing prisoners of war (so-called "slaves") to have sex with their mother in what is now called "United States": the purpose was to create more "slaves": that is where the word motherfucker comes from Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes. Though will continue to look for the exact reference

– guest271314
5 hours ago












4 Answers
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19














Using Eighteenth Century Collections Online, I found this note at the end of an anti-Catholic pamphlet titled A Protestant's Revolution (Dublin, 1734), where other pamphlets by the same publisher ("S. Hyde, Widow in Dame-street") are advertised for publication. At the end of the list appears a nota bene:




N. B. The above Books are sold cheaper by the Dozen or the Hundred.




The statement appears to appeal to cost in bulk.



It's hard to know when the phrasing became idiom, but this example occurring so early and in the context of selling books suggests that its origins were likely in something as prosaic as what the words literally mean together in a marketing context and not a peculiar plantation breeding program that should be well-documented but yields nothing in the resources I've used so far.






share|improve this answer

































    11














    The earliest variant of the phrase I could verify in print was 'cheaper in the dozen', from an article in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 24 May 1790 (paywalled, emphasis mine):




    In New-York the price [of Webster's Spelling-books] has commonly been thirteen shillings New-York currency a dozen, which is three-pence lawful money cheaper in the dozen....




    The exact phrase 'cheaper by the dozen' turns up a dozen years later, in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 12 Jul 1802 (paywalled, bold emphasis mine):




    N. B. Said Chadwick will sell Morocco [leather shoes] cheaper by the dozen than can be bought at any store in this state.




    Considering the context of the early uses, and the semantics of the phrase itself, the origin of the phrase is likely to have been marketing jargon.



    With due respect to the fanciful folk etymology you encountered, which in fact deserves only scorn and disrespect, I observe that the phrase was more recently popularized by the 1948 book Cheaper by the Dozen (Frank B Gilbreth and Ernestine Gilbreth Carey), a central theme of which was the putative efficiencies of having a dozen children. Thus, it might be proposed that the title of the book derived from the obviously fictitious practice involving prisoners-of-war.



    However, even supposing the authors of the book confessed that the title was sponsored by a scurrilous story, that story is not evidence supporting an origin for the phrase.






    share|improve this answer





















    • 4





      "the story itself betrays ignorance or disregard of genetic principles by ascribing "severe birth defects" to a single generation of inbreeding." That's the least of it. In what war were the mothers' of prisoners at hand, on a plantation no less. And how would this action result in a dozen children and what makes them cheaper? Cheaper in the value to the plantation owner? What advantage would that give? Utter nonsense.

      – JimmyJames
      8 hours ago



















    6














    I cannot give you an early attestation for the exact phrase "cheaper by the dozen" but the idea is common:




    The proper worsted for knitting the stockings is of four-threads, at two-pence an ounce ; but if bought by the dozen pounds, is sold at twenty- four shillings the dozen, which is only three halfpence an ounce ...




    from Instructions for Cutting Out Apparel for the Poor etc etc (London, 1789).






    share|improve this answer































      -1














      This is just a placeholder answer while look for the complete connection to the phrase "cheaper by the dozen".



      We know that englishmen in the colonies and what would become the "United States" forced prisoners of war (what englishmen refer to as "slaves") to have sexual intercourse with their mothers, in an effort to produce more prisoners of war, for free labor, fun, glory, material gain, and experimentation, see Medical Apartheid
      The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present
      by Harriet A. Washington. Forcing young prisoners of war to impregnate their mothers is but one of the horrendous practices of englishmen in the western hemisphere. Without such experiments what is referred to "modern medicine" would not exist. If you find the time, browse the historical medical records of the University of Chicago.



      That is the origin of the term motherfucker from which the cheaper by the dozen phrase was used to refer to the offspring of such forced impregnation.



      The late Dick Gregory revealed many of these historical facts before their passing. It has been some time since last reviewed the actual phrases usage. Am not entirely certain if Dick Gregory is the one and only source of the meaning of that phrase, within the context of the offspring of male prisoners of war in the western hemisphere being forced to impregnate their mothers to produce more prisoners of war.



      It is not surprising that anglophiles deny, or refute such origins of terms in the english language.



      Though for an individual who is not an englophile, it is common knowledge that english is first and foremost an equivocal language, intended to be used for deception, capable of having more than one meaning for each word or phrase. There is no such thing as "good" or "proper" english. The language is a result of conquest by the Normans, Romans, whores, convicts, pimps, murderers, imperialism and several hundred years of institutional white supremacy.



      In any event, this Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes




      ... we can't have no more. How we gonna do this?... So he made me, 14
      years old, put a sock over my head, and have sex, fuck my mama...



      ...cause she didn't want him to get made and start killing the
      slaves...



      ... and so, I had to screw my mama man...



      ... That's where the word motherfucker comes from and then white
      boys shit and they hated the word until they got around black folks...



      ... and now you go to a white movie and they say mothafucka before
      they finish running the credits from the movie...




      is a brief introduction to the emergence of the phrase "cheaper by the dozen" being used to refer to the offspring of so-called "black" or african women in the western hemisphere being force to be impregnated by their sons, the result of which was often birth defects, which were still valuable "property" for those englishmen who bought and sold human beings. The interview provides accounts for the origin of the terms honky and motherfucker. Will edit the answer to address specifically how the motherfucker history resulted in cheaper by the dozen.



      Note, that same interview describes the origin of the term honky, which is derived from english, or so-called "white" men literally honking the horn of their vehicle outside of the whorehouse they were visiting to buy sex from so-called "black" women.






      share|improve this answer










      New contributor




      guest271314 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.
















      • 6





        So your source is a comedy act? All of the "etymologies" he gives are highly questionable (if he's even serious), especially the one for "honky" given that the term was used as a slur by whites for foreigners and factory workers well before it was used as a slur by black people for whites in general. (For the earlier meaning, see for example here)

        – Laurel
        4 hours ago











      • @Laurel, Re "a comedy act": not in this context, no. Which is to say comedians usually, (or perhaps must invariably), have their serious sides, and a wide variety of pre- and post-comedy vocations and interests.

        – agc
        1 hour ago











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      4 Answers
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      4 Answers
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      19














      Using Eighteenth Century Collections Online, I found this note at the end of an anti-Catholic pamphlet titled A Protestant's Revolution (Dublin, 1734), where other pamphlets by the same publisher ("S. Hyde, Widow in Dame-street") are advertised for publication. At the end of the list appears a nota bene:




      N. B. The above Books are sold cheaper by the Dozen or the Hundred.




      The statement appears to appeal to cost in bulk.



      It's hard to know when the phrasing became idiom, but this example occurring so early and in the context of selling books suggests that its origins were likely in something as prosaic as what the words literally mean together in a marketing context and not a peculiar plantation breeding program that should be well-documented but yields nothing in the resources I've used so far.






      share|improve this answer






























        19














        Using Eighteenth Century Collections Online, I found this note at the end of an anti-Catholic pamphlet titled A Protestant's Revolution (Dublin, 1734), where other pamphlets by the same publisher ("S. Hyde, Widow in Dame-street") are advertised for publication. At the end of the list appears a nota bene:




        N. B. The above Books are sold cheaper by the Dozen or the Hundred.




        The statement appears to appeal to cost in bulk.



        It's hard to know when the phrasing became idiom, but this example occurring so early and in the context of selling books suggests that its origins were likely in something as prosaic as what the words literally mean together in a marketing context and not a peculiar plantation breeding program that should be well-documented but yields nothing in the resources I've used so far.






        share|improve this answer




























          19












          19








          19







          Using Eighteenth Century Collections Online, I found this note at the end of an anti-Catholic pamphlet titled A Protestant's Revolution (Dublin, 1734), where other pamphlets by the same publisher ("S. Hyde, Widow in Dame-street") are advertised for publication. At the end of the list appears a nota bene:




          N. B. The above Books are sold cheaper by the Dozen or the Hundred.




          The statement appears to appeal to cost in bulk.



          It's hard to know when the phrasing became idiom, but this example occurring so early and in the context of selling books suggests that its origins were likely in something as prosaic as what the words literally mean together in a marketing context and not a peculiar plantation breeding program that should be well-documented but yields nothing in the resources I've used so far.






          share|improve this answer















          Using Eighteenth Century Collections Online, I found this note at the end of an anti-Catholic pamphlet titled A Protestant's Revolution (Dublin, 1734), where other pamphlets by the same publisher ("S. Hyde, Widow in Dame-street") are advertised for publication. At the end of the list appears a nota bene:




          N. B. The above Books are sold cheaper by the Dozen or the Hundred.




          The statement appears to appeal to cost in bulk.



          It's hard to know when the phrasing became idiom, but this example occurring so early and in the context of selling books suggests that its origins were likely in something as prosaic as what the words literally mean together in a marketing context and not a peculiar plantation breeding program that should be well-documented but yields nothing in the resources I've used so far.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 9 hours ago

























          answered 11 hours ago









          TaliesinMerlinTaliesinMerlin

          3,769524




          3,769524

























              11














              The earliest variant of the phrase I could verify in print was 'cheaper in the dozen', from an article in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 24 May 1790 (paywalled, emphasis mine):




              In New-York the price [of Webster's Spelling-books] has commonly been thirteen shillings New-York currency a dozen, which is three-pence lawful money cheaper in the dozen....




              The exact phrase 'cheaper by the dozen' turns up a dozen years later, in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 12 Jul 1802 (paywalled, bold emphasis mine):




              N. B. Said Chadwick will sell Morocco [leather shoes] cheaper by the dozen than can be bought at any store in this state.




              Considering the context of the early uses, and the semantics of the phrase itself, the origin of the phrase is likely to have been marketing jargon.



              With due respect to the fanciful folk etymology you encountered, which in fact deserves only scorn and disrespect, I observe that the phrase was more recently popularized by the 1948 book Cheaper by the Dozen (Frank B Gilbreth and Ernestine Gilbreth Carey), a central theme of which was the putative efficiencies of having a dozen children. Thus, it might be proposed that the title of the book derived from the obviously fictitious practice involving prisoners-of-war.



              However, even supposing the authors of the book confessed that the title was sponsored by a scurrilous story, that story is not evidence supporting an origin for the phrase.






              share|improve this answer





















              • 4





                "the story itself betrays ignorance or disregard of genetic principles by ascribing "severe birth defects" to a single generation of inbreeding." That's the least of it. In what war were the mothers' of prisoners at hand, on a plantation no less. And how would this action result in a dozen children and what makes them cheaper? Cheaper in the value to the plantation owner? What advantage would that give? Utter nonsense.

                – JimmyJames
                8 hours ago
















              11














              The earliest variant of the phrase I could verify in print was 'cheaper in the dozen', from an article in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 24 May 1790 (paywalled, emphasis mine):




              In New-York the price [of Webster's Spelling-books] has commonly been thirteen shillings New-York currency a dozen, which is three-pence lawful money cheaper in the dozen....




              The exact phrase 'cheaper by the dozen' turns up a dozen years later, in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 12 Jul 1802 (paywalled, bold emphasis mine):




              N. B. Said Chadwick will sell Morocco [leather shoes] cheaper by the dozen than can be bought at any store in this state.




              Considering the context of the early uses, and the semantics of the phrase itself, the origin of the phrase is likely to have been marketing jargon.



              With due respect to the fanciful folk etymology you encountered, which in fact deserves only scorn and disrespect, I observe that the phrase was more recently popularized by the 1948 book Cheaper by the Dozen (Frank B Gilbreth and Ernestine Gilbreth Carey), a central theme of which was the putative efficiencies of having a dozen children. Thus, it might be proposed that the title of the book derived from the obviously fictitious practice involving prisoners-of-war.



              However, even supposing the authors of the book confessed that the title was sponsored by a scurrilous story, that story is not evidence supporting an origin for the phrase.






              share|improve this answer





















              • 4





                "the story itself betrays ignorance or disregard of genetic principles by ascribing "severe birth defects" to a single generation of inbreeding." That's the least of it. In what war were the mothers' of prisoners at hand, on a plantation no less. And how would this action result in a dozen children and what makes them cheaper? Cheaper in the value to the plantation owner? What advantage would that give? Utter nonsense.

                – JimmyJames
                8 hours ago














              11












              11








              11







              The earliest variant of the phrase I could verify in print was 'cheaper in the dozen', from an article in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 24 May 1790 (paywalled, emphasis mine):




              In New-York the price [of Webster's Spelling-books] has commonly been thirteen shillings New-York currency a dozen, which is three-pence lawful money cheaper in the dozen....




              The exact phrase 'cheaper by the dozen' turns up a dozen years later, in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 12 Jul 1802 (paywalled, bold emphasis mine):




              N. B. Said Chadwick will sell Morocco [leather shoes] cheaper by the dozen than can be bought at any store in this state.




              Considering the context of the early uses, and the semantics of the phrase itself, the origin of the phrase is likely to have been marketing jargon.



              With due respect to the fanciful folk etymology you encountered, which in fact deserves only scorn and disrespect, I observe that the phrase was more recently popularized by the 1948 book Cheaper by the Dozen (Frank B Gilbreth and Ernestine Gilbreth Carey), a central theme of which was the putative efficiencies of having a dozen children. Thus, it might be proposed that the title of the book derived from the obviously fictitious practice involving prisoners-of-war.



              However, even supposing the authors of the book confessed that the title was sponsored by a scurrilous story, that story is not evidence supporting an origin for the phrase.






              share|improve this answer















              The earliest variant of the phrase I could verify in print was 'cheaper in the dozen', from an article in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 24 May 1790 (paywalled, emphasis mine):




              In New-York the price [of Webster's Spelling-books] has commonly been thirteen shillings New-York currency a dozen, which is three-pence lawful money cheaper in the dozen....




              The exact phrase 'cheaper by the dozen' turns up a dozen years later, in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 12 Jul 1802 (paywalled, bold emphasis mine):




              N. B. Said Chadwick will sell Morocco [leather shoes] cheaper by the dozen than can be bought at any store in this state.




              Considering the context of the early uses, and the semantics of the phrase itself, the origin of the phrase is likely to have been marketing jargon.



              With due respect to the fanciful folk etymology you encountered, which in fact deserves only scorn and disrespect, I observe that the phrase was more recently popularized by the 1948 book Cheaper by the Dozen (Frank B Gilbreth and Ernestine Gilbreth Carey), a central theme of which was the putative efficiencies of having a dozen children. Thus, it might be proposed that the title of the book derived from the obviously fictitious practice involving prisoners-of-war.



              However, even supposing the authors of the book confessed that the title was sponsored by a scurrilous story, that story is not evidence supporting an origin for the phrase.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited 39 mins ago

























              answered 11 hours ago









              JELJEL

              27.5k45193




              27.5k45193








              • 4





                "the story itself betrays ignorance or disregard of genetic principles by ascribing "severe birth defects" to a single generation of inbreeding." That's the least of it. In what war were the mothers' of prisoners at hand, on a plantation no less. And how would this action result in a dozen children and what makes them cheaper? Cheaper in the value to the plantation owner? What advantage would that give? Utter nonsense.

                – JimmyJames
                8 hours ago














              • 4





                "the story itself betrays ignorance or disregard of genetic principles by ascribing "severe birth defects" to a single generation of inbreeding." That's the least of it. In what war were the mothers' of prisoners at hand, on a plantation no less. And how would this action result in a dozen children and what makes them cheaper? Cheaper in the value to the plantation owner? What advantage would that give? Utter nonsense.

                – JimmyJames
                8 hours ago








              4




              4





              "the story itself betrays ignorance or disregard of genetic principles by ascribing "severe birth defects" to a single generation of inbreeding." That's the least of it. In what war were the mothers' of prisoners at hand, on a plantation no less. And how would this action result in a dozen children and what makes them cheaper? Cheaper in the value to the plantation owner? What advantage would that give? Utter nonsense.

              – JimmyJames
              8 hours ago





              "the story itself betrays ignorance or disregard of genetic principles by ascribing "severe birth defects" to a single generation of inbreeding." That's the least of it. In what war were the mothers' of prisoners at hand, on a plantation no less. And how would this action result in a dozen children and what makes them cheaper? Cheaper in the value to the plantation owner? What advantage would that give? Utter nonsense.

              – JimmyJames
              8 hours ago











              6














              I cannot give you an early attestation for the exact phrase "cheaper by the dozen" but the idea is common:




              The proper worsted for knitting the stockings is of four-threads, at two-pence an ounce ; but if bought by the dozen pounds, is sold at twenty- four shillings the dozen, which is only three halfpence an ounce ...




              from Instructions for Cutting Out Apparel for the Poor etc etc (London, 1789).






              share|improve this answer




























                6














                I cannot give you an early attestation for the exact phrase "cheaper by the dozen" but the idea is common:




                The proper worsted for knitting the stockings is of four-threads, at two-pence an ounce ; but if bought by the dozen pounds, is sold at twenty- four shillings the dozen, which is only three halfpence an ounce ...




                from Instructions for Cutting Out Apparel for the Poor etc etc (London, 1789).






                share|improve this answer


























                  6












                  6








                  6







                  I cannot give you an early attestation for the exact phrase "cheaper by the dozen" but the idea is common:




                  The proper worsted for knitting the stockings is of four-threads, at two-pence an ounce ; but if bought by the dozen pounds, is sold at twenty- four shillings the dozen, which is only three halfpence an ounce ...




                  from Instructions for Cutting Out Apparel for the Poor etc etc (London, 1789).






                  share|improve this answer













                  I cannot give you an early attestation for the exact phrase "cheaper by the dozen" but the idea is common:




                  The proper worsted for knitting the stockings is of four-threads, at two-pence an ounce ; but if bought by the dozen pounds, is sold at twenty- four shillings the dozen, which is only three halfpence an ounce ...




                  from Instructions for Cutting Out Apparel for the Poor etc etc (London, 1789).







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 12 hours ago









                  TRomanoTRomano

                  15.7k21943




                  15.7k21943























                      -1














                      This is just a placeholder answer while look for the complete connection to the phrase "cheaper by the dozen".



                      We know that englishmen in the colonies and what would become the "United States" forced prisoners of war (what englishmen refer to as "slaves") to have sexual intercourse with their mothers, in an effort to produce more prisoners of war, for free labor, fun, glory, material gain, and experimentation, see Medical Apartheid
                      The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present
                      by Harriet A. Washington. Forcing young prisoners of war to impregnate their mothers is but one of the horrendous practices of englishmen in the western hemisphere. Without such experiments what is referred to "modern medicine" would not exist. If you find the time, browse the historical medical records of the University of Chicago.



                      That is the origin of the term motherfucker from which the cheaper by the dozen phrase was used to refer to the offspring of such forced impregnation.



                      The late Dick Gregory revealed many of these historical facts before their passing. It has been some time since last reviewed the actual phrases usage. Am not entirely certain if Dick Gregory is the one and only source of the meaning of that phrase, within the context of the offspring of male prisoners of war in the western hemisphere being forced to impregnate their mothers to produce more prisoners of war.



                      It is not surprising that anglophiles deny, or refute such origins of terms in the english language.



                      Though for an individual who is not an englophile, it is common knowledge that english is first and foremost an equivocal language, intended to be used for deception, capable of having more than one meaning for each word or phrase. There is no such thing as "good" or "proper" english. The language is a result of conquest by the Normans, Romans, whores, convicts, pimps, murderers, imperialism and several hundred years of institutional white supremacy.



                      In any event, this Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes




                      ... we can't have no more. How we gonna do this?... So he made me, 14
                      years old, put a sock over my head, and have sex, fuck my mama...



                      ...cause she didn't want him to get made and start killing the
                      slaves...



                      ... and so, I had to screw my mama man...



                      ... That's where the word motherfucker comes from and then white
                      boys shit and they hated the word until they got around black folks...



                      ... and now you go to a white movie and they say mothafucka before
                      they finish running the credits from the movie...




                      is a brief introduction to the emergence of the phrase "cheaper by the dozen" being used to refer to the offspring of so-called "black" or african women in the western hemisphere being force to be impregnated by their sons, the result of which was often birth defects, which were still valuable "property" for those englishmen who bought and sold human beings. The interview provides accounts for the origin of the terms honky and motherfucker. Will edit the answer to address specifically how the motherfucker history resulted in cheaper by the dozen.



                      Note, that same interview describes the origin of the term honky, which is derived from english, or so-called "white" men literally honking the horn of their vehicle outside of the whorehouse they were visiting to buy sex from so-called "black" women.






                      share|improve this answer










                      New contributor




                      guest271314 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.
















                      • 6





                        So your source is a comedy act? All of the "etymologies" he gives are highly questionable (if he's even serious), especially the one for "honky" given that the term was used as a slur by whites for foreigners and factory workers well before it was used as a slur by black people for whites in general. (For the earlier meaning, see for example here)

                        – Laurel
                        4 hours ago











                      • @Laurel, Re "a comedy act": not in this context, no. Which is to say comedians usually, (or perhaps must invariably), have their serious sides, and a wide variety of pre- and post-comedy vocations and interests.

                        – agc
                        1 hour ago
















                      -1














                      This is just a placeholder answer while look for the complete connection to the phrase "cheaper by the dozen".



                      We know that englishmen in the colonies and what would become the "United States" forced prisoners of war (what englishmen refer to as "slaves") to have sexual intercourse with their mothers, in an effort to produce more prisoners of war, for free labor, fun, glory, material gain, and experimentation, see Medical Apartheid
                      The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present
                      by Harriet A. Washington. Forcing young prisoners of war to impregnate their mothers is but one of the horrendous practices of englishmen in the western hemisphere. Without such experiments what is referred to "modern medicine" would not exist. If you find the time, browse the historical medical records of the University of Chicago.



                      That is the origin of the term motherfucker from which the cheaper by the dozen phrase was used to refer to the offspring of such forced impregnation.



                      The late Dick Gregory revealed many of these historical facts before their passing. It has been some time since last reviewed the actual phrases usage. Am not entirely certain if Dick Gregory is the one and only source of the meaning of that phrase, within the context of the offspring of male prisoners of war in the western hemisphere being forced to impregnate their mothers to produce more prisoners of war.



                      It is not surprising that anglophiles deny, or refute such origins of terms in the english language.



                      Though for an individual who is not an englophile, it is common knowledge that english is first and foremost an equivocal language, intended to be used for deception, capable of having more than one meaning for each word or phrase. There is no such thing as "good" or "proper" english. The language is a result of conquest by the Normans, Romans, whores, convicts, pimps, murderers, imperialism and several hundred years of institutional white supremacy.



                      In any event, this Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes




                      ... we can't have no more. How we gonna do this?... So he made me, 14
                      years old, put a sock over my head, and have sex, fuck my mama...



                      ...cause she didn't want him to get made and start killing the
                      slaves...



                      ... and so, I had to screw my mama man...



                      ... That's where the word motherfucker comes from and then white
                      boys shit and they hated the word until they got around black folks...



                      ... and now you go to a white movie and they say mothafucka before
                      they finish running the credits from the movie...




                      is a brief introduction to the emergence of the phrase "cheaper by the dozen" being used to refer to the offspring of so-called "black" or african women in the western hemisphere being force to be impregnated by their sons, the result of which was often birth defects, which were still valuable "property" for those englishmen who bought and sold human beings. The interview provides accounts for the origin of the terms honky and motherfucker. Will edit the answer to address specifically how the motherfucker history resulted in cheaper by the dozen.



                      Note, that same interview describes the origin of the term honky, which is derived from english, or so-called "white" men literally honking the horn of their vehicle outside of the whorehouse they were visiting to buy sex from so-called "black" women.






                      share|improve this answer










                      New contributor




                      guest271314 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.
















                      • 6





                        So your source is a comedy act? All of the "etymologies" he gives are highly questionable (if he's even serious), especially the one for "honky" given that the term was used as a slur by whites for foreigners and factory workers well before it was used as a slur by black people for whites in general. (For the earlier meaning, see for example here)

                        – Laurel
                        4 hours ago











                      • @Laurel, Re "a comedy act": not in this context, no. Which is to say comedians usually, (or perhaps must invariably), have their serious sides, and a wide variety of pre- and post-comedy vocations and interests.

                        – agc
                        1 hour ago














                      -1












                      -1








                      -1







                      This is just a placeholder answer while look for the complete connection to the phrase "cheaper by the dozen".



                      We know that englishmen in the colonies and what would become the "United States" forced prisoners of war (what englishmen refer to as "slaves") to have sexual intercourse with their mothers, in an effort to produce more prisoners of war, for free labor, fun, glory, material gain, and experimentation, see Medical Apartheid
                      The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present
                      by Harriet A. Washington. Forcing young prisoners of war to impregnate their mothers is but one of the horrendous practices of englishmen in the western hemisphere. Without such experiments what is referred to "modern medicine" would not exist. If you find the time, browse the historical medical records of the University of Chicago.



                      That is the origin of the term motherfucker from which the cheaper by the dozen phrase was used to refer to the offspring of such forced impregnation.



                      The late Dick Gregory revealed many of these historical facts before their passing. It has been some time since last reviewed the actual phrases usage. Am not entirely certain if Dick Gregory is the one and only source of the meaning of that phrase, within the context of the offspring of male prisoners of war in the western hemisphere being forced to impregnate their mothers to produce more prisoners of war.



                      It is not surprising that anglophiles deny, or refute such origins of terms in the english language.



                      Though for an individual who is not an englophile, it is common knowledge that english is first and foremost an equivocal language, intended to be used for deception, capable of having more than one meaning for each word or phrase. There is no such thing as "good" or "proper" english. The language is a result of conquest by the Normans, Romans, whores, convicts, pimps, murderers, imperialism and several hundred years of institutional white supremacy.



                      In any event, this Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes




                      ... we can't have no more. How we gonna do this?... So he made me, 14
                      years old, put a sock over my head, and have sex, fuck my mama...



                      ...cause she didn't want him to get made and start killing the
                      slaves...



                      ... and so, I had to screw my mama man...



                      ... That's where the word motherfucker comes from and then white
                      boys shit and they hated the word until they got around black folks...



                      ... and now you go to a white movie and they say mothafucka before
                      they finish running the credits from the movie...




                      is a brief introduction to the emergence of the phrase "cheaper by the dozen" being used to refer to the offspring of so-called "black" or african women in the western hemisphere being force to be impregnated by their sons, the result of which was often birth defects, which were still valuable "property" for those englishmen who bought and sold human beings. The interview provides accounts for the origin of the terms honky and motherfucker. Will edit the answer to address specifically how the motherfucker history resulted in cheaper by the dozen.



                      Note, that same interview describes the origin of the term honky, which is derived from english, or so-called "white" men literally honking the horn of their vehicle outside of the whorehouse they were visiting to buy sex from so-called "black" women.






                      share|improve this answer










                      New contributor




                      guest271314 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.










                      This is just a placeholder answer while look for the complete connection to the phrase "cheaper by the dozen".



                      We know that englishmen in the colonies and what would become the "United States" forced prisoners of war (what englishmen refer to as "slaves") to have sexual intercourse with their mothers, in an effort to produce more prisoners of war, for free labor, fun, glory, material gain, and experimentation, see Medical Apartheid
                      The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present
                      by Harriet A. Washington. Forcing young prisoners of war to impregnate their mothers is but one of the horrendous practices of englishmen in the western hemisphere. Without such experiments what is referred to "modern medicine" would not exist. If you find the time, browse the historical medical records of the University of Chicago.



                      That is the origin of the term motherfucker from which the cheaper by the dozen phrase was used to refer to the offspring of such forced impregnation.



                      The late Dick Gregory revealed many of these historical facts before their passing. It has been some time since last reviewed the actual phrases usage. Am not entirely certain if Dick Gregory is the one and only source of the meaning of that phrase, within the context of the offspring of male prisoners of war in the western hemisphere being forced to impregnate their mothers to produce more prisoners of war.



                      It is not surprising that anglophiles deny, or refute such origins of terms in the english language.



                      Though for an individual who is not an englophile, it is common knowledge that english is first and foremost an equivocal language, intended to be used for deception, capable of having more than one meaning for each word or phrase. There is no such thing as "good" or "proper" english. The language is a result of conquest by the Normans, Romans, whores, convicts, pimps, murderers, imperialism and several hundred years of institutional white supremacy.



                      In any event, this Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes




                      ... we can't have no more. How we gonna do this?... So he made me, 14
                      years old, put a sock over my head, and have sex, fuck my mama...



                      ...cause she didn't want him to get made and start killing the
                      slaves...



                      ... and so, I had to screw my mama man...



                      ... That's where the word motherfucker comes from and then white
                      boys shit and they hated the word until they got around black folks...



                      ... and now you go to a white movie and they say mothafucka before
                      they finish running the credits from the movie...




                      is a brief introduction to the emergence of the phrase "cheaper by the dozen" being used to refer to the offspring of so-called "black" or african women in the western hemisphere being force to be impregnated by their sons, the result of which was often birth defects, which were still valuable "property" for those englishmen who bought and sold human beings. The interview provides accounts for the origin of the terms honky and motherfucker. Will edit the answer to address specifically how the motherfucker history resulted in cheaper by the dozen.



                      Note, that same interview describes the origin of the term honky, which is derived from english, or so-called "white" men literally honking the horn of their vehicle outside of the whorehouse they were visiting to buy sex from so-called "black" women.







                      share|improve this answer










                      New contributor




                      guest271314 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited 2 hours ago









                      agc

                      2,556625




                      2,556625






                      New contributor




                      guest271314 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                      answered 5 hours ago









                      guest271314guest271314

                      1155




                      1155




                      New contributor




                      guest271314 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.





                      New contributor





                      guest271314 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.






                      guest271314 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.








                      • 6





                        So your source is a comedy act? All of the "etymologies" he gives are highly questionable (if he's even serious), especially the one for "honky" given that the term was used as a slur by whites for foreigners and factory workers well before it was used as a slur by black people for whites in general. (For the earlier meaning, see for example here)

                        – Laurel
                        4 hours ago











                      • @Laurel, Re "a comedy act": not in this context, no. Which is to say comedians usually, (or perhaps must invariably), have their serious sides, and a wide variety of pre- and post-comedy vocations and interests.

                        – agc
                        1 hour ago














                      • 6





                        So your source is a comedy act? All of the "etymologies" he gives are highly questionable (if he's even serious), especially the one for "honky" given that the term was used as a slur by whites for foreigners and factory workers well before it was used as a slur by black people for whites in general. (For the earlier meaning, see for example here)

                        – Laurel
                        4 hours ago











                      • @Laurel, Re "a comedy act": not in this context, no. Which is to say comedians usually, (or perhaps must invariably), have their serious sides, and a wide variety of pre- and post-comedy vocations and interests.

                        – agc
                        1 hour ago








                      6




                      6





                      So your source is a comedy act? All of the "etymologies" he gives are highly questionable (if he's even serious), especially the one for "honky" given that the term was used as a slur by whites for foreigners and factory workers well before it was used as a slur by black people for whites in general. (For the earlier meaning, see for example here)

                      – Laurel
                      4 hours ago





                      So your source is a comedy act? All of the "etymologies" he gives are highly questionable (if he's even serious), especially the one for "honky" given that the term was used as a slur by whites for foreigners and factory workers well before it was used as a slur by black people for whites in general. (For the earlier meaning, see for example here)

                      – Laurel
                      4 hours ago













                      @Laurel, Re "a comedy act": not in this context, no. Which is to say comedians usually, (or perhaps must invariably), have their serious sides, and a wide variety of pre- and post-comedy vocations and interests.

                      – agc
                      1 hour ago





                      @Laurel, Re "a comedy act": not in this context, no. Which is to say comedians usually, (or perhaps must invariably), have their serious sides, and a wide variety of pre- and post-comedy vocations and interests.

                      – agc
                      1 hour ago


















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