Stranding “of” in subjects - Possible or impossible?












1















Observation



Take a subject that contains an of-phrase (friend of X, president of X, writer of X etc.). Now try to question the element X after of by fronting the corresponding wh-phrase.



Often this seems to be completely impossible, as illustrated in (1).




(1) [The friend of the president] has arrived / was fired / fixed my car.

--> ?* Which president has [the friend of _ ] arrived?

--> ?* Which president was [the friend of _ ] fired?

--> ?* Which president did [the friend of _ ] fix my car?




But sometimes such fronting seems to be fine, as shown in (2).




(2) [The impeachment of the president] has occurred / was discussed / caused outrage.

--> Which president has [the impeachment of _ ] occured?

--> Which president was [the impeachment of _ ] discussed?

--> Which president did [the impeachment of _ ] cause outrage?




And sometimes, such sentences are more acceptable for unaccusatives (arrive, occur, die) and passives (was fired, was discussed, was arrested), than for transitives (fix my car, cause outrage, composed a speech). This is illustrated in (3).




(3) [The writer of the president] has died / was arrested / composed a speech.

--> Which president has [the writer of _ ] died?

--> Which president was [the writer of _ ] arrested?

--> ?* Which president did [the writer of _ ] compose a speech?







Question



Why can you sometimes leave of stranded in the subject and sometimes not?










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  • 1





    Note that the (1) sentences are also bad with pied-piping: *Of which president has [the friend _ ] arrived? Notice also that the possibility of Saxon genitives varies: The president's friend but *Which president's has [(the) friend _ ] arrived?. The president's writer is fine, but the writer of the president sounds very odd to me. I think you've got at least two, maybe three constructions here. Of has a lot of uses.

    – John Lawler
    Dec 20 '18 at 19:25











  • Thanks for the comment (i) I just wanted to keep “the president” constant for good exposition. The “writer” example is often [the driver of [which car]] in the literature. So then “of” might sound better. (II) I don’t think anybody’s ever suggested that it’s actually “of” that’s at the heart of this puzzle. That’s an interesting idea.

    – Richard Z
    Dec 20 '18 at 21:49
















1















Observation



Take a subject that contains an of-phrase (friend of X, president of X, writer of X etc.). Now try to question the element X after of by fronting the corresponding wh-phrase.



Often this seems to be completely impossible, as illustrated in (1).




(1) [The friend of the president] has arrived / was fired / fixed my car.

--> ?* Which president has [the friend of _ ] arrived?

--> ?* Which president was [the friend of _ ] fired?

--> ?* Which president did [the friend of _ ] fix my car?




But sometimes such fronting seems to be fine, as shown in (2).




(2) [The impeachment of the president] has occurred / was discussed / caused outrage.

--> Which president has [the impeachment of _ ] occured?

--> Which president was [the impeachment of _ ] discussed?

--> Which president did [the impeachment of _ ] cause outrage?




And sometimes, such sentences are more acceptable for unaccusatives (arrive, occur, die) and passives (was fired, was discussed, was arrested), than for transitives (fix my car, cause outrage, composed a speech). This is illustrated in (3).




(3) [The writer of the president] has died / was arrested / composed a speech.

--> Which president has [the writer of _ ] died?

--> Which president was [the writer of _ ] arrested?

--> ?* Which president did [the writer of _ ] compose a speech?







Question



Why can you sometimes leave of stranded in the subject and sometimes not?










share|improve this question














bumped to the homepage by Community 3 mins ago


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  • 1





    Note that the (1) sentences are also bad with pied-piping: *Of which president has [the friend _ ] arrived? Notice also that the possibility of Saxon genitives varies: The president's friend but *Which president's has [(the) friend _ ] arrived?. The president's writer is fine, but the writer of the president sounds very odd to me. I think you've got at least two, maybe three constructions here. Of has a lot of uses.

    – John Lawler
    Dec 20 '18 at 19:25











  • Thanks for the comment (i) I just wanted to keep “the president” constant for good exposition. The “writer” example is often [the driver of [which car]] in the literature. So then “of” might sound better. (II) I don’t think anybody’s ever suggested that it’s actually “of” that’s at the heart of this puzzle. That’s an interesting idea.

    – Richard Z
    Dec 20 '18 at 21:49














1












1








1


1






Observation



Take a subject that contains an of-phrase (friend of X, president of X, writer of X etc.). Now try to question the element X after of by fronting the corresponding wh-phrase.



Often this seems to be completely impossible, as illustrated in (1).




(1) [The friend of the president] has arrived / was fired / fixed my car.

--> ?* Which president has [the friend of _ ] arrived?

--> ?* Which president was [the friend of _ ] fired?

--> ?* Which president did [the friend of _ ] fix my car?




But sometimes such fronting seems to be fine, as shown in (2).




(2) [The impeachment of the president] has occurred / was discussed / caused outrage.

--> Which president has [the impeachment of _ ] occured?

--> Which president was [the impeachment of _ ] discussed?

--> Which president did [the impeachment of _ ] cause outrage?




And sometimes, such sentences are more acceptable for unaccusatives (arrive, occur, die) and passives (was fired, was discussed, was arrested), than for transitives (fix my car, cause outrage, composed a speech). This is illustrated in (3).




(3) [The writer of the president] has died / was arrested / composed a speech.

--> Which president has [the writer of _ ] died?

--> Which president was [the writer of _ ] arrested?

--> ?* Which president did [the writer of _ ] compose a speech?







Question



Why can you sometimes leave of stranded in the subject and sometimes not?










share|improve this question














Observation



Take a subject that contains an of-phrase (friend of X, president of X, writer of X etc.). Now try to question the element X after of by fronting the corresponding wh-phrase.



Often this seems to be completely impossible, as illustrated in (1).




(1) [The friend of the president] has arrived / was fired / fixed my car.

--> ?* Which president has [the friend of _ ] arrived?

--> ?* Which president was [the friend of _ ] fired?

--> ?* Which president did [the friend of _ ] fix my car?




But sometimes such fronting seems to be fine, as shown in (2).




(2) [The impeachment of the president] has occurred / was discussed / caused outrage.

--> Which president has [the impeachment of _ ] occured?

--> Which president was [the impeachment of _ ] discussed?

--> Which president did [the impeachment of _ ] cause outrage?




And sometimes, such sentences are more acceptable for unaccusatives (arrive, occur, die) and passives (was fired, was discussed, was arrested), than for transitives (fix my car, cause outrage, composed a speech). This is illustrated in (3).




(3) [The writer of the president] has died / was arrested / composed a speech.

--> Which president has [the writer of _ ] died?

--> Which president was [the writer of _ ] arrested?

--> ?* Which president did [the writer of _ ] compose a speech?







Question



Why can you sometimes leave of stranded in the subject and sometimes not?







grammaticality prepositions syntax subjects






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asked Dec 20 '18 at 17:50









Richard ZRichard Z

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  • 1





    Note that the (1) sentences are also bad with pied-piping: *Of which president has [the friend _ ] arrived? Notice also that the possibility of Saxon genitives varies: The president's friend but *Which president's has [(the) friend _ ] arrived?. The president's writer is fine, but the writer of the president sounds very odd to me. I think you've got at least two, maybe three constructions here. Of has a lot of uses.

    – John Lawler
    Dec 20 '18 at 19:25











  • Thanks for the comment (i) I just wanted to keep “the president” constant for good exposition. The “writer” example is often [the driver of [which car]] in the literature. So then “of” might sound better. (II) I don’t think anybody’s ever suggested that it’s actually “of” that’s at the heart of this puzzle. That’s an interesting idea.

    – Richard Z
    Dec 20 '18 at 21:49














  • 1





    Note that the (1) sentences are also bad with pied-piping: *Of which president has [the friend _ ] arrived? Notice also that the possibility of Saxon genitives varies: The president's friend but *Which president's has [(the) friend _ ] arrived?. The president's writer is fine, but the writer of the president sounds very odd to me. I think you've got at least two, maybe three constructions here. Of has a lot of uses.

    – John Lawler
    Dec 20 '18 at 19:25











  • Thanks for the comment (i) I just wanted to keep “the president” constant for good exposition. The “writer” example is often [the driver of [which car]] in the literature. So then “of” might sound better. (II) I don’t think anybody’s ever suggested that it’s actually “of” that’s at the heart of this puzzle. That’s an interesting idea.

    – Richard Z
    Dec 20 '18 at 21:49








1




1





Note that the (1) sentences are also bad with pied-piping: *Of which president has [the friend _ ] arrived? Notice also that the possibility of Saxon genitives varies: The president's friend but *Which president's has [(the) friend _ ] arrived?. The president's writer is fine, but the writer of the president sounds very odd to me. I think you've got at least two, maybe three constructions here. Of has a lot of uses.

– John Lawler
Dec 20 '18 at 19:25





Note that the (1) sentences are also bad with pied-piping: *Of which president has [the friend _ ] arrived? Notice also that the possibility of Saxon genitives varies: The president's friend but *Which president's has [(the) friend _ ] arrived?. The president's writer is fine, but the writer of the president sounds very odd to me. I think you've got at least two, maybe three constructions here. Of has a lot of uses.

– John Lawler
Dec 20 '18 at 19:25













Thanks for the comment (i) I just wanted to keep “the president” constant for good exposition. The “writer” example is often [the driver of [which car]] in the literature. So then “of” might sound better. (II) I don’t think anybody’s ever suggested that it’s actually “of” that’s at the heart of this puzzle. That’s an interesting idea.

– Richard Z
Dec 20 '18 at 21:49





Thanks for the comment (i) I just wanted to keep “the president” constant for good exposition. The “writer” example is often [the driver of [which car]] in the literature. So then “of” might sound better. (II) I don’t think anybody’s ever suggested that it’s actually “of” that’s at the heart of this puzzle. That’s an interesting idea.

– Richard Z
Dec 20 '18 at 21:49










1 Answer
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You are attempting to follow a pattern in informal, unscripted spoken English in which an interrogative is fronted, stranding the preposition:




Interrogatives with preposition fronting are heard in prepared and organised speech, as in a planned interview (To what do you attribute this trend?), but in ordinary conversation the stranding construction is strongly preferred. — Rodney Huddleston, Geoffrey Pullum, A Student’s Introduction to English Grammar, 2005, 138.




Preposition fronting also occurs in tests and quiz shows (Of what country was Maria Therea empress?) where topicality and clarity dictate the word order. All of your examples, most would agree, would sound far more idiomatic had you fronted the preposition rather than the interrogative.



There is ample attestation, however, for the preference for preposition stranding:




So I was talking to the President about appointing him. He said to me, ― Who’s he a friend of? ‖ I said, ―Well, he’s a friend of Ed Day’s. — Richard K. Donahue, recorded interview by John F. Stewart, March 8, 1967, (17), John F. Kennedy Library Oral History Program.



Well, we may ask, then, who’s he a friend of? I'll tell you who he‘s a friend of. He’s a friend of big business and of the rich of this nation. — AFL-CIO Free Trade Union News 35–39 (1980), 13.



Who's she a friend of?” “Mary Nichols.” “I've never heard of her.” “Old friend of mine. Honestly, Babs, you'll like this girl.” “Well, ask her to dinner.” — Evelyn Waugh, The world of Evelyn Waugh, 1958, 176.



Q: The keeper of the woods is Jim Green. Who is he the father of? A: Lilly Ingram. — Greenvale Trivia



Who is she the mother of, again? Every possible answer seems utterly wrong. — The Bible (Annotated): Genesis 3.



Who is she the sister of?— Headline, IMDb



What country is he the president of anyway? — Daily News (Los Angeles) 3 Feb. 2006.




Except for an adverb (again, anyway), the preposition of is truly stranded — at the end of the question. You are attempting to use the construction within a noun phrase where the preposition establishes a genitive relationship between two nouns (x of y), which requires a reparsing of the sentence once the hearer/reader encounters the preposition.



Huddleston-Pullum adduces the following sentence (139), which it terms “fairly clearly ungrammatical” because it occurs within a subject noun phrase:




This is the safe which the key to was stolen.




I would suggest that your examples suffer, though interrogatives, from the same problem.






share|improve this answer
























  • Thanks for your answer. (i) In all you examples of the type “Who’s he a friend of”, you’re extracting out of a predicate. “He” is the subject. I’m interested in extraction out of the subject. The preposition “of” needs to be stranded in a subject. (ii) Thé “key to” example is relevant, and it’s ungrammatical, as my example (1). My question is: why are examples like (2) (3) sometimes acceptable?

    – Richard Z
    Dec 21 '18 at 4:04











  • @RichardZ: Acceptable to whom? Why don't you try to find some real language examples that fit your pattern rather than simpy inventing hypothetical constructions and musing about their grammaticality? I don't mean to sound harsh, but I can't consider any of your examples idiomatic English. They're identical to the "key" sentence: this is a construction in which prep. fronting is the only grammatical option if you don't use a possessive.

    – KarlG
    Dec 21 '18 at 5:00













  • So you disagree with the judgments in (1), (2) and (3)? For you they’re all equally bad? That’s good to know. However, it’s not easy to find rare expressions like these in texts. And then of course there will be lots of other factors that differ (verb type, length of the subject, kind of extraction, different kinds of prepositions stranded etc.). So that’s not really a feasible task for this request. The last sentence in (2) is a natural example from a newspaper though.

    – Richard Z
    Dec 21 '18 at 8:22











  • @RichardZ: Any online corpus that allows collocations, say, of within so many words of a wh-interrogative might yield results. Or even Google, since your examples have of followed by a verb. You might try a few common verbs.

    – KarlG
    Dec 21 '18 at 12:00













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1 Answer
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1 Answer
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You are attempting to follow a pattern in informal, unscripted spoken English in which an interrogative is fronted, stranding the preposition:




Interrogatives with preposition fronting are heard in prepared and organised speech, as in a planned interview (To what do you attribute this trend?), but in ordinary conversation the stranding construction is strongly preferred. — Rodney Huddleston, Geoffrey Pullum, A Student’s Introduction to English Grammar, 2005, 138.




Preposition fronting also occurs in tests and quiz shows (Of what country was Maria Therea empress?) where topicality and clarity dictate the word order. All of your examples, most would agree, would sound far more idiomatic had you fronted the preposition rather than the interrogative.



There is ample attestation, however, for the preference for preposition stranding:




So I was talking to the President about appointing him. He said to me, ― Who’s he a friend of? ‖ I said, ―Well, he’s a friend of Ed Day’s. — Richard K. Donahue, recorded interview by John F. Stewart, March 8, 1967, (17), John F. Kennedy Library Oral History Program.



Well, we may ask, then, who’s he a friend of? I'll tell you who he‘s a friend of. He’s a friend of big business and of the rich of this nation. — AFL-CIO Free Trade Union News 35–39 (1980), 13.



Who's she a friend of?” “Mary Nichols.” “I've never heard of her.” “Old friend of mine. Honestly, Babs, you'll like this girl.” “Well, ask her to dinner.” — Evelyn Waugh, The world of Evelyn Waugh, 1958, 176.



Q: The keeper of the woods is Jim Green. Who is he the father of? A: Lilly Ingram. — Greenvale Trivia



Who is she the mother of, again? Every possible answer seems utterly wrong. — The Bible (Annotated): Genesis 3.



Who is she the sister of?— Headline, IMDb



What country is he the president of anyway? — Daily News (Los Angeles) 3 Feb. 2006.




Except for an adverb (again, anyway), the preposition of is truly stranded — at the end of the question. You are attempting to use the construction within a noun phrase where the preposition establishes a genitive relationship between two nouns (x of y), which requires a reparsing of the sentence once the hearer/reader encounters the preposition.



Huddleston-Pullum adduces the following sentence (139), which it terms “fairly clearly ungrammatical” because it occurs within a subject noun phrase:




This is the safe which the key to was stolen.




I would suggest that your examples suffer, though interrogatives, from the same problem.






share|improve this answer
























  • Thanks for your answer. (i) In all you examples of the type “Who’s he a friend of”, you’re extracting out of a predicate. “He” is the subject. I’m interested in extraction out of the subject. The preposition “of” needs to be stranded in a subject. (ii) Thé “key to” example is relevant, and it’s ungrammatical, as my example (1). My question is: why are examples like (2) (3) sometimes acceptable?

    – Richard Z
    Dec 21 '18 at 4:04











  • @RichardZ: Acceptable to whom? Why don't you try to find some real language examples that fit your pattern rather than simpy inventing hypothetical constructions and musing about their grammaticality? I don't mean to sound harsh, but I can't consider any of your examples idiomatic English. They're identical to the "key" sentence: this is a construction in which prep. fronting is the only grammatical option if you don't use a possessive.

    – KarlG
    Dec 21 '18 at 5:00













  • So you disagree with the judgments in (1), (2) and (3)? For you they’re all equally bad? That’s good to know. However, it’s not easy to find rare expressions like these in texts. And then of course there will be lots of other factors that differ (verb type, length of the subject, kind of extraction, different kinds of prepositions stranded etc.). So that’s not really a feasible task for this request. The last sentence in (2) is a natural example from a newspaper though.

    – Richard Z
    Dec 21 '18 at 8:22











  • @RichardZ: Any online corpus that allows collocations, say, of within so many words of a wh-interrogative might yield results. Or even Google, since your examples have of followed by a verb. You might try a few common verbs.

    – KarlG
    Dec 21 '18 at 12:00


















0














You are attempting to follow a pattern in informal, unscripted spoken English in which an interrogative is fronted, stranding the preposition:




Interrogatives with preposition fronting are heard in prepared and organised speech, as in a planned interview (To what do you attribute this trend?), but in ordinary conversation the stranding construction is strongly preferred. — Rodney Huddleston, Geoffrey Pullum, A Student’s Introduction to English Grammar, 2005, 138.




Preposition fronting also occurs in tests and quiz shows (Of what country was Maria Therea empress?) where topicality and clarity dictate the word order. All of your examples, most would agree, would sound far more idiomatic had you fronted the preposition rather than the interrogative.



There is ample attestation, however, for the preference for preposition stranding:




So I was talking to the President about appointing him. He said to me, ― Who’s he a friend of? ‖ I said, ―Well, he’s a friend of Ed Day’s. — Richard K. Donahue, recorded interview by John F. Stewart, March 8, 1967, (17), John F. Kennedy Library Oral History Program.



Well, we may ask, then, who’s he a friend of? I'll tell you who he‘s a friend of. He’s a friend of big business and of the rich of this nation. — AFL-CIO Free Trade Union News 35–39 (1980), 13.



Who's she a friend of?” “Mary Nichols.” “I've never heard of her.” “Old friend of mine. Honestly, Babs, you'll like this girl.” “Well, ask her to dinner.” — Evelyn Waugh, The world of Evelyn Waugh, 1958, 176.



Q: The keeper of the woods is Jim Green. Who is he the father of? A: Lilly Ingram. — Greenvale Trivia



Who is she the mother of, again? Every possible answer seems utterly wrong. — The Bible (Annotated): Genesis 3.



Who is she the sister of?— Headline, IMDb



What country is he the president of anyway? — Daily News (Los Angeles) 3 Feb. 2006.




Except for an adverb (again, anyway), the preposition of is truly stranded — at the end of the question. You are attempting to use the construction within a noun phrase where the preposition establishes a genitive relationship between two nouns (x of y), which requires a reparsing of the sentence once the hearer/reader encounters the preposition.



Huddleston-Pullum adduces the following sentence (139), which it terms “fairly clearly ungrammatical” because it occurs within a subject noun phrase:




This is the safe which the key to was stolen.




I would suggest that your examples suffer, though interrogatives, from the same problem.






share|improve this answer
























  • Thanks for your answer. (i) In all you examples of the type “Who’s he a friend of”, you’re extracting out of a predicate. “He” is the subject. I’m interested in extraction out of the subject. The preposition “of” needs to be stranded in a subject. (ii) Thé “key to” example is relevant, and it’s ungrammatical, as my example (1). My question is: why are examples like (2) (3) sometimes acceptable?

    – Richard Z
    Dec 21 '18 at 4:04











  • @RichardZ: Acceptable to whom? Why don't you try to find some real language examples that fit your pattern rather than simpy inventing hypothetical constructions and musing about their grammaticality? I don't mean to sound harsh, but I can't consider any of your examples idiomatic English. They're identical to the "key" sentence: this is a construction in which prep. fronting is the only grammatical option if you don't use a possessive.

    – KarlG
    Dec 21 '18 at 5:00













  • So you disagree with the judgments in (1), (2) and (3)? For you they’re all equally bad? That’s good to know. However, it’s not easy to find rare expressions like these in texts. And then of course there will be lots of other factors that differ (verb type, length of the subject, kind of extraction, different kinds of prepositions stranded etc.). So that’s not really a feasible task for this request. The last sentence in (2) is a natural example from a newspaper though.

    – Richard Z
    Dec 21 '18 at 8:22











  • @RichardZ: Any online corpus that allows collocations, say, of within so many words of a wh-interrogative might yield results. Or even Google, since your examples have of followed by a verb. You might try a few common verbs.

    – KarlG
    Dec 21 '18 at 12:00
















0












0








0







You are attempting to follow a pattern in informal, unscripted spoken English in which an interrogative is fronted, stranding the preposition:




Interrogatives with preposition fronting are heard in prepared and organised speech, as in a planned interview (To what do you attribute this trend?), but in ordinary conversation the stranding construction is strongly preferred. — Rodney Huddleston, Geoffrey Pullum, A Student’s Introduction to English Grammar, 2005, 138.




Preposition fronting also occurs in tests and quiz shows (Of what country was Maria Therea empress?) where topicality and clarity dictate the word order. All of your examples, most would agree, would sound far more idiomatic had you fronted the preposition rather than the interrogative.



There is ample attestation, however, for the preference for preposition stranding:




So I was talking to the President about appointing him. He said to me, ― Who’s he a friend of? ‖ I said, ―Well, he’s a friend of Ed Day’s. — Richard K. Donahue, recorded interview by John F. Stewart, March 8, 1967, (17), John F. Kennedy Library Oral History Program.



Well, we may ask, then, who’s he a friend of? I'll tell you who he‘s a friend of. He’s a friend of big business and of the rich of this nation. — AFL-CIO Free Trade Union News 35–39 (1980), 13.



Who's she a friend of?” “Mary Nichols.” “I've never heard of her.” “Old friend of mine. Honestly, Babs, you'll like this girl.” “Well, ask her to dinner.” — Evelyn Waugh, The world of Evelyn Waugh, 1958, 176.



Q: The keeper of the woods is Jim Green. Who is he the father of? A: Lilly Ingram. — Greenvale Trivia



Who is she the mother of, again? Every possible answer seems utterly wrong. — The Bible (Annotated): Genesis 3.



Who is she the sister of?— Headline, IMDb



What country is he the president of anyway? — Daily News (Los Angeles) 3 Feb. 2006.




Except for an adverb (again, anyway), the preposition of is truly stranded — at the end of the question. You are attempting to use the construction within a noun phrase where the preposition establishes a genitive relationship between two nouns (x of y), which requires a reparsing of the sentence once the hearer/reader encounters the preposition.



Huddleston-Pullum adduces the following sentence (139), which it terms “fairly clearly ungrammatical” because it occurs within a subject noun phrase:




This is the safe which the key to was stolen.




I would suggest that your examples suffer, though interrogatives, from the same problem.






share|improve this answer













You are attempting to follow a pattern in informal, unscripted spoken English in which an interrogative is fronted, stranding the preposition:




Interrogatives with preposition fronting are heard in prepared and organised speech, as in a planned interview (To what do you attribute this trend?), but in ordinary conversation the stranding construction is strongly preferred. — Rodney Huddleston, Geoffrey Pullum, A Student’s Introduction to English Grammar, 2005, 138.




Preposition fronting also occurs in tests and quiz shows (Of what country was Maria Therea empress?) where topicality and clarity dictate the word order. All of your examples, most would agree, would sound far more idiomatic had you fronted the preposition rather than the interrogative.



There is ample attestation, however, for the preference for preposition stranding:




So I was talking to the President about appointing him. He said to me, ― Who’s he a friend of? ‖ I said, ―Well, he’s a friend of Ed Day’s. — Richard K. Donahue, recorded interview by John F. Stewart, March 8, 1967, (17), John F. Kennedy Library Oral History Program.



Well, we may ask, then, who’s he a friend of? I'll tell you who he‘s a friend of. He’s a friend of big business and of the rich of this nation. — AFL-CIO Free Trade Union News 35–39 (1980), 13.



Who's she a friend of?” “Mary Nichols.” “I've never heard of her.” “Old friend of mine. Honestly, Babs, you'll like this girl.” “Well, ask her to dinner.” — Evelyn Waugh, The world of Evelyn Waugh, 1958, 176.



Q: The keeper of the woods is Jim Green. Who is he the father of? A: Lilly Ingram. — Greenvale Trivia



Who is she the mother of, again? Every possible answer seems utterly wrong. — The Bible (Annotated): Genesis 3.



Who is she the sister of?— Headline, IMDb



What country is he the president of anyway? — Daily News (Los Angeles) 3 Feb. 2006.




Except for an adverb (again, anyway), the preposition of is truly stranded — at the end of the question. You are attempting to use the construction within a noun phrase where the preposition establishes a genitive relationship between two nouns (x of y), which requires a reparsing of the sentence once the hearer/reader encounters the preposition.



Huddleston-Pullum adduces the following sentence (139), which it terms “fairly clearly ungrammatical” because it occurs within a subject noun phrase:




This is the safe which the key to was stolen.




I would suggest that your examples suffer, though interrogatives, from the same problem.







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answered Dec 21 '18 at 0:19









KarlGKarlG

20.5k52857




20.5k52857













  • Thanks for your answer. (i) In all you examples of the type “Who’s he a friend of”, you’re extracting out of a predicate. “He” is the subject. I’m interested in extraction out of the subject. The preposition “of” needs to be stranded in a subject. (ii) Thé “key to” example is relevant, and it’s ungrammatical, as my example (1). My question is: why are examples like (2) (3) sometimes acceptable?

    – Richard Z
    Dec 21 '18 at 4:04











  • @RichardZ: Acceptable to whom? Why don't you try to find some real language examples that fit your pattern rather than simpy inventing hypothetical constructions and musing about their grammaticality? I don't mean to sound harsh, but I can't consider any of your examples idiomatic English. They're identical to the "key" sentence: this is a construction in which prep. fronting is the only grammatical option if you don't use a possessive.

    – KarlG
    Dec 21 '18 at 5:00













  • So you disagree with the judgments in (1), (2) and (3)? For you they’re all equally bad? That’s good to know. However, it’s not easy to find rare expressions like these in texts. And then of course there will be lots of other factors that differ (verb type, length of the subject, kind of extraction, different kinds of prepositions stranded etc.). So that’s not really a feasible task for this request. The last sentence in (2) is a natural example from a newspaper though.

    – Richard Z
    Dec 21 '18 at 8:22











  • @RichardZ: Any online corpus that allows collocations, say, of within so many words of a wh-interrogative might yield results. Or even Google, since your examples have of followed by a verb. You might try a few common verbs.

    – KarlG
    Dec 21 '18 at 12:00





















  • Thanks for your answer. (i) In all you examples of the type “Who’s he a friend of”, you’re extracting out of a predicate. “He” is the subject. I’m interested in extraction out of the subject. The preposition “of” needs to be stranded in a subject. (ii) Thé “key to” example is relevant, and it’s ungrammatical, as my example (1). My question is: why are examples like (2) (3) sometimes acceptable?

    – Richard Z
    Dec 21 '18 at 4:04











  • @RichardZ: Acceptable to whom? Why don't you try to find some real language examples that fit your pattern rather than simpy inventing hypothetical constructions and musing about their grammaticality? I don't mean to sound harsh, but I can't consider any of your examples idiomatic English. They're identical to the "key" sentence: this is a construction in which prep. fronting is the only grammatical option if you don't use a possessive.

    – KarlG
    Dec 21 '18 at 5:00













  • So you disagree with the judgments in (1), (2) and (3)? For you they’re all equally bad? That’s good to know. However, it’s not easy to find rare expressions like these in texts. And then of course there will be lots of other factors that differ (verb type, length of the subject, kind of extraction, different kinds of prepositions stranded etc.). So that’s not really a feasible task for this request. The last sentence in (2) is a natural example from a newspaper though.

    – Richard Z
    Dec 21 '18 at 8:22











  • @RichardZ: Any online corpus that allows collocations, say, of within so many words of a wh-interrogative might yield results. Or even Google, since your examples have of followed by a verb. You might try a few common verbs.

    – KarlG
    Dec 21 '18 at 12:00



















Thanks for your answer. (i) In all you examples of the type “Who’s he a friend of”, you’re extracting out of a predicate. “He” is the subject. I’m interested in extraction out of the subject. The preposition “of” needs to be stranded in a subject. (ii) Thé “key to” example is relevant, and it’s ungrammatical, as my example (1). My question is: why are examples like (2) (3) sometimes acceptable?

– Richard Z
Dec 21 '18 at 4:04





Thanks for your answer. (i) In all you examples of the type “Who’s he a friend of”, you’re extracting out of a predicate. “He” is the subject. I’m interested in extraction out of the subject. The preposition “of” needs to be stranded in a subject. (ii) Thé “key to” example is relevant, and it’s ungrammatical, as my example (1). My question is: why are examples like (2) (3) sometimes acceptable?

– Richard Z
Dec 21 '18 at 4:04













@RichardZ: Acceptable to whom? Why don't you try to find some real language examples that fit your pattern rather than simpy inventing hypothetical constructions and musing about their grammaticality? I don't mean to sound harsh, but I can't consider any of your examples idiomatic English. They're identical to the "key" sentence: this is a construction in which prep. fronting is the only grammatical option if you don't use a possessive.

– KarlG
Dec 21 '18 at 5:00







@RichardZ: Acceptable to whom? Why don't you try to find some real language examples that fit your pattern rather than simpy inventing hypothetical constructions and musing about their grammaticality? I don't mean to sound harsh, but I can't consider any of your examples idiomatic English. They're identical to the "key" sentence: this is a construction in which prep. fronting is the only grammatical option if you don't use a possessive.

– KarlG
Dec 21 '18 at 5:00















So you disagree with the judgments in (1), (2) and (3)? For you they’re all equally bad? That’s good to know. However, it’s not easy to find rare expressions like these in texts. And then of course there will be lots of other factors that differ (verb type, length of the subject, kind of extraction, different kinds of prepositions stranded etc.). So that’s not really a feasible task for this request. The last sentence in (2) is a natural example from a newspaper though.

– Richard Z
Dec 21 '18 at 8:22





So you disagree with the judgments in (1), (2) and (3)? For you they’re all equally bad? That’s good to know. However, it’s not easy to find rare expressions like these in texts. And then of course there will be lots of other factors that differ (verb type, length of the subject, kind of extraction, different kinds of prepositions stranded etc.). So that’s not really a feasible task for this request. The last sentence in (2) is a natural example from a newspaper though.

– Richard Z
Dec 21 '18 at 8:22













@RichardZ: Any online corpus that allows collocations, say, of within so many words of a wh-interrogative might yield results. Or even Google, since your examples have of followed by a verb. You might try a few common verbs.

– KarlG
Dec 21 '18 at 12:00







@RichardZ: Any online corpus that allows collocations, say, of within so many words of a wh-interrogative might yield results. Or even Google, since your examples have of followed by a verb. You might try a few common verbs.

– KarlG
Dec 21 '18 at 12:00




















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