Parallelism with “have” and “have been” sounds wrong
I came across a sentence like this:
(A) Many have been buggy or poor experiences.
It sounds wrong and I would have written that like this:
(B) Many have been buggy or have poor experiences.
The problem with (A) seems to be with the Parallelism requiring splitting "have been" to just "have", which makes it bad.
Questions:
Is (A) wrong grammatically ?
If so, why is it improper to split "have been" to "have" in Parallelism ?
grammaticality parallelism
asked 12 hours ago
PremPrem
2,78121135
add a comment |
I came across a sentence like this:
(A) Many have been buggy or poor experiences.
It sounds wrong and I would have written that like this:
(B) Many have been buggy or have poor experiences.
The problem with (A) seems to be with the Parallelism requiring splitting "have been" to just "have", which makes it bad.
Questions:
Is (A) wrong grammatically ?
If so, why is it improper to split "have been" to "have" in Parallelism ?
grammaticality parallelism
asked 12 hours ago
PremPrem
2,78121135
1
It seems difficult to imagine something that could both be buggy and also could have a poor experience. Are you sure that "have been buggy or have been poor experiences" wasn't what was intended?
– Peter Shor
12 hours ago
@PeterShor , It was like "Many video games have failed last year; Many [video games] have been buggy or poor experiences." and I thought it was trying to say that "the video games have poor [user] experiences" probably because of bad design and bugs, from the rest of the article ; but your interpretation is also valid. If my interpretation is the intended interpretation, would (A) be improper ?
– Prem
12 hours ago
1
(A) is not wrong. It is just harder to parse due to gapping, which is the omission of some elements in a coordination, in this case by the or, that would otherwise be repeated. When the sentence is complicated then sometimes it is worth it not to avoid the repetition like what you did in (B). However, you missed another possible candidate. It is possible to assume that experiences is also part of the omitted content. This results in Many have been buggy [experiences] or [have been] poor experiences.
– mama
5 hours ago
add a comment |
I came across a sentence like this:
(A) Many have been buggy or poor experiences.
It sounds wrong and I would have written that like this:
(B) Many have been buggy or have poor experiences.
The problem with (A) seems to be with the Parallelism requiring splitting "have been" to just "have", which makes it bad.
Questions:
Is (A) wrong grammatically ?
If so, why is it improper to split "have been" to "have" in Parallelism ?
grammaticality parallelism
asked 12 hours ago
PremPrem
2,78121135
I came across a sentence like this:
(A) Many have been buggy or poor experiences.
It sounds wrong and I would have written that like this:
(B) Many have been buggy or have poor experiences.
The problem with (A) seems to be with the Parallelism requiring splitting "have been" to just "have", which makes it bad.
Questions:
Is (A) wrong grammatically ?
If so, why is it improper to split "have been" to "have" in Parallelism ?
grammaticality parallelism
grammaticality parallelism
asked 12 hours ago
PremPrem
2,78121135
asked 12 hours ago
PremPrem
2,78121135
asked 12 hours ago
PremPrem
2,78121135
asked 12 hours ago
PremPrem
2,78121135
asked 12 hours ago
PremPrem
2,78121135
2,78121135
1
It seems difficult to imagine something that could both be buggy and also could have a poor experience. Are you sure that "have been buggy or have been poor experiences" wasn't what was intended?
– Peter Shor
12 hours ago
@PeterShor , It was like "Many video games have failed last year; Many [video games] have been buggy or poor experiences." and I thought it was trying to say that "the video games have poor [user] experiences" probably because of bad design and bugs, from the rest of the article ; but your interpretation is also valid. If my interpretation is the intended interpretation, would (A) be improper ?
– Prem
12 hours ago
1
(A) is not wrong. It is just harder to parse due to gapping, which is the omission of some elements in a coordination, in this case by the or, that would otherwise be repeated. When the sentence is complicated then sometimes it is worth it not to avoid the repetition like what you did in (B). However, you missed another possible candidate. It is possible to assume that experiences is also part of the omitted content. This results in Many have been buggy [experiences] or [have been] poor experiences.
– mama
5 hours ago
add a comment |
1
It seems difficult to imagine something that could both be buggy and also could have a poor experience. Are you sure that "have been buggy or have been poor experiences" wasn't what was intended?
– Peter Shor
12 hours ago
@PeterShor , It was like "Many video games have failed last year; Many [video games] have been buggy or poor experiences." and I thought it was trying to say that "the video games have poor [user] experiences" probably because of bad design and bugs, from the rest of the article ; but your interpretation is also valid. If my interpretation is the intended interpretation, would (A) be improper ?
– Prem
12 hours ago
1
(A) is not wrong. It is just harder to parse due to gapping, which is the omission of some elements in a coordination, in this case by the or, that would otherwise be repeated. When the sentence is complicated then sometimes it is worth it not to avoid the repetition like what you did in (B). However, you missed another possible candidate. It is possible to assume that experiences is also part of the omitted content. This results in Many have been buggy [experiences] or [have been] poor experiences.
– mama
5 hours ago
1
1
It seems difficult to imagine something that could both be buggy and also could have a poor experience. Are you sure that "have been buggy or have been poor experiences" wasn't what was intended?
– Peter Shor
12 hours ago
It seems difficult to imagine something that could both be buggy and also could have a poor experience. Are you sure that "have been buggy or have been poor experiences" wasn't what was intended?
– Peter Shor
12 hours ago
@PeterShor , It was like "Many video games have failed last year; Many [video games] have been buggy or poor experiences." and I thought it was trying to say that "the video games have poor [user] experiences" probably because of bad design and bugs, from the rest of the article ; but your interpretation is also valid. If my interpretation is the intended interpretation, would (A) be improper ?
– Prem
12 hours ago
@PeterShor , It was like "Many video games have failed last year; Many [video games] have been buggy or poor experiences." and I thought it was trying to say that "the video games have poor [user] experiences" probably because of bad design and bugs, from the rest of the article ; but your interpretation is also valid. If my interpretation is the intended interpretation, would (A) be improper ?
– Prem
12 hours ago
1
1
(A) is not wrong. It is just harder to parse due to gapping, which is the omission of some elements in a coordination, in this case by the or, that would otherwise be repeated. When the sentence is complicated then sometimes it is worth it not to avoid the repetition like what you did in (B). However, you missed another possible candidate. It is possible to assume that experiences is also part of the omitted content. This results in Many have been buggy [experiences] or [have been] poor experiences.
– mama
5 hours ago
(A) is not wrong. It is just harder to parse due to gapping, which is the omission of some elements in a coordination, in this case by the or, that would otherwise be repeated. When the sentence is complicated then sometimes it is worth it not to avoid the repetition like what you did in (B). However, you missed another possible candidate. It is possible to assume that experiences is also part of the omitted content. This results in Many have been buggy [experiences] or [have been] poor experiences.
– mama
5 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
There, "poor experiences" can mean "unenjoyable experiences" or "sub-par experiences" (from the perspective of the user) and thus BE is an acceptable verb.
It was a poor experience.
In old-school terminology "poor experiences" is a predicate nominative. buggy would be a predicate adjective. So what you're mixing there is a predicate adjective and a predicate nominative, which is what is giving you pause, I think.
Compare:
Many of the cities we visited have been modern and fun experiences.
The tendency is to take "modern" and "fun" as both applying to "experiences", but they don't. modern and fun experiences are separate predicates. Only "fun" modifies "experiences". The jarring effect can be mitigated in speech with a pause:
Many of the cities we visited have been modern, and fun experiences.
answered 10 hours ago
TRomanoTRomano
15.7k21943
+ 1 , yes , "Predicate Adjective" & "Predicate Nominative" seem to be the culprits !
– Prem
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I guess you could split the present perfect, but I don't see why you'd need to:
(A.1) Many [video games] have been buggy (adj.).
(A.2) Many [video games] have been poor experiences (zero det./art. + noun).
(A) Many [video games] have been buggy or [have been] poor experiences.
Seems like perfectly legitimate sentence structure to me.
answered 10 hours ago
WehageWehage
412
New contributor
Wehage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
+1 , Welcome to ELU & thanks for the insight !
– Prem
1 hour ago
add a comment |
If you imagine an ellipsis of the words "have been" then you get:
- Many have been buggy or [have been] poor experiences.
I don't exactly know what rules there are for ellipsis, and how much you are allowed to omit. For example:
- If I had won the election I would have done more for this country than any other candidate.
[would]
[have]
[done]
[for this country]
As I said, I don't know the rules of how much you are allowed to leave out exactly. Ending with "would" may be questionable and possibly have a different meaning, but ending with any of the others I think would largely have the same meaning.
Another simple example:
- I have been recognized and [I] [have been] awarded at a grand ceremony.
answered 5 hours ago
ZebrafishZebrafish
10.2k31336
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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active
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3 Answers
3
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There, "poor experiences" can mean "unenjoyable experiences" or "sub-par experiences" (from the perspective of the user) and thus BE is an acceptable verb.
It was a poor experience.
In old-school terminology "poor experiences" is a predicate nominative. buggy would be a predicate adjective. So what you're mixing there is a predicate adjective and a predicate nominative, which is what is giving you pause, I think.
Compare:
Many of the cities we visited have been modern and fun experiences.
The tendency is to take "modern" and "fun" as both applying to "experiences", but they don't. modern and fun experiences are separate predicates. Only "fun" modifies "experiences". The jarring effect can be mitigated in speech with a pause:
Many of the cities we visited have been modern, and fun experiences.
answered 10 hours ago
TRomanoTRomano
15.7k21943
+ 1 , yes , "Predicate Adjective" & "Predicate Nominative" seem to be the culprits !
– Prem
1 hour ago
add a comment |
There, "poor experiences" can mean "unenjoyable experiences" or "sub-par experiences" (from the perspective of the user) and thus BE is an acceptable verb.
It was a poor experience.
In old-school terminology "poor experiences" is a predicate nominative. buggy would be a predicate adjective. So what you're mixing there is a predicate adjective and a predicate nominative, which is what is giving you pause, I think.
Compare:
Many of the cities we visited have been modern and fun experiences.
The tendency is to take "modern" and "fun" as both applying to "experiences", but they don't. modern and fun experiences are separate predicates. Only "fun" modifies "experiences". The jarring effect can be mitigated in speech with a pause:
Many of the cities we visited have been modern, and fun experiences.
answered 10 hours ago
TRomanoTRomano
15.7k21943
+ 1 , yes , "Predicate Adjective" & "Predicate Nominative" seem to be the culprits !
– Prem
1 hour ago
add a comment |
There, "poor experiences" can mean "unenjoyable experiences" or "sub-par experiences" (from the perspective of the user) and thus BE is an acceptable verb.
It was a poor experience.
In old-school terminology "poor experiences" is a predicate nominative. buggy would be a predicate adjective. So what you're mixing there is a predicate adjective and a predicate nominative, which is what is giving you pause, I think.
Compare:
Many of the cities we visited have been modern and fun experiences.
The tendency is to take "modern" and "fun" as both applying to "experiences", but they don't. modern and fun experiences are separate predicates. Only "fun" modifies "experiences". The jarring effect can be mitigated in speech with a pause:
Many of the cities we visited have been modern, and fun experiences.
answered 10 hours ago
TRomanoTRomano
15.7k21943
There, "poor experiences" can mean "unenjoyable experiences" or "sub-par experiences" (from the perspective of the user) and thus BE is an acceptable verb.
It was a poor experience.
In old-school terminology "poor experiences" is a predicate nominative. buggy would be a predicate adjective. So what you're mixing there is a predicate adjective and a predicate nominative, which is what is giving you pause, I think.
Compare:
Many of the cities we visited have been modern and fun experiences.
The tendency is to take "modern" and "fun" as both applying to "experiences", but they don't. modern and fun experiences are separate predicates. Only "fun" modifies "experiences". The jarring effect can be mitigated in speech with a pause:
Many of the cities we visited have been modern, and fun experiences.
answered 10 hours ago
TRomanoTRomano
15.7k21943
edited 10 hours ago
answered 10 hours ago
TRomanoTRomano
15.7k21943
answered 10 hours ago
TRomanoTRomano
15.7k21943
answered 10 hours ago
TRomanoTRomano
15.7k21943
15.7k21943
+ 1 , yes , "Predicate Adjective" & "Predicate Nominative" seem to be the culprits !
– Prem
1 hour ago
add a comment |
+ 1 , yes , "Predicate Adjective" & "Predicate Nominative" seem to be the culprits !
– Prem
1 hour ago
+ 1 , yes , "Predicate Adjective" & "Predicate Nominative" seem to be the culprits !
– Prem
1 hour ago
+ 1 , yes , "Predicate Adjective" & "Predicate Nominative" seem to be the culprits !
– Prem
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I guess you could split the present perfect, but I don't see why you'd need to:
(A.1) Many [video games] have been buggy (adj.).
(A.2) Many [video games] have been poor experiences (zero det./art. + noun).
(A) Many [video games] have been buggy or [have been] poor experiences.
Seems like perfectly legitimate sentence structure to me.
answered 10 hours ago
WehageWehage
412
New contributor
Wehage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
+1 , Welcome to ELU & thanks for the insight !
– Prem
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I guess you could split the present perfect, but I don't see why you'd need to:
(A.1) Many [video games] have been buggy (adj.).
(A.2) Many [video games] have been poor experiences (zero det./art. + noun).
(A) Many [video games] have been buggy or [have been] poor experiences.
Seems like perfectly legitimate sentence structure to me.
answered 10 hours ago
WehageWehage
412
New contributor
Wehage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
+1 , Welcome to ELU & thanks for the insight !
– Prem
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I guess you could split the present perfect, but I don't see why you'd need to:
(A.1) Many [video games] have been buggy (adj.).
(A.2) Many [video games] have been poor experiences (zero det./art. + noun).
(A) Many [video games] have been buggy or [have been] poor experiences.
Seems like perfectly legitimate sentence structure to me.
answered 10 hours ago
WehageWehage
412
New contributor
Wehage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I guess you could split the present perfect, but I don't see why you'd need to:
(A.1) Many [video games] have been buggy (adj.).
(A.2) Many [video games] have been poor experiences (zero det./art. + noun).
(A) Many [video games] have been buggy or [have been] poor experiences.
Seems like perfectly legitimate sentence structure to me.
answered 10 hours ago
WehageWehage
412
New contributor
Wehage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 10 hours ago
WehageWehage
412
New contributor
Wehage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 10 hours ago
WehageWehage
412
answered 10 hours ago
WehageWehage
412
412
New contributor
Wehage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Wehage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Wehage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
+1 , Welcome to ELU & thanks for the insight !
– Prem
1 hour ago
add a comment |
+1 , Welcome to ELU & thanks for the insight !
– Prem
1 hour ago
+1 , Welcome to ELU & thanks for the insight !
– Prem
1 hour ago
+1 , Welcome to ELU & thanks for the insight !
– Prem
1 hour ago
add a comment |
If you imagine an ellipsis of the words "have been" then you get:
- Many have been buggy or [have been] poor experiences.
I don't exactly know what rules there are for ellipsis, and how much you are allowed to omit. For example:
- If I had won the election I would have done more for this country than any other candidate.
[would]
[have]
[done]
[for this country]
As I said, I don't know the rules of how much you are allowed to leave out exactly. Ending with "would" may be questionable and possibly have a different meaning, but ending with any of the others I think would largely have the same meaning.
Another simple example:
- I have been recognized and [I] [have been] awarded at a grand ceremony.
answered 5 hours ago
ZebrafishZebrafish
10.2k31336
add a comment |
If you imagine an ellipsis of the words "have been" then you get:
- Many have been buggy or [have been] poor experiences.
I don't exactly know what rules there are for ellipsis, and how much you are allowed to omit. For example:
- If I had won the election I would have done more for this country than any other candidate.
[would]
[have]
[done]
[for this country]
As I said, I don't know the rules of how much you are allowed to leave out exactly. Ending with "would" may be questionable and possibly have a different meaning, but ending with any of the others I think would largely have the same meaning.
Another simple example:
- I have been recognized and [I] [have been] awarded at a grand ceremony.
answered 5 hours ago
ZebrafishZebrafish
10.2k31336
add a comment |
If you imagine an ellipsis of the words "have been" then you get:
- Many have been buggy or [have been] poor experiences.
I don't exactly know what rules there are for ellipsis, and how much you are allowed to omit. For example:
- If I had won the election I would have done more for this country than any other candidate.
[would]
[have]
[done]
[for this country]
As I said, I don't know the rules of how much you are allowed to leave out exactly. Ending with "would" may be questionable and possibly have a different meaning, but ending with any of the others I think would largely have the same meaning.
Another simple example:
- I have been recognized and [I] [have been] awarded at a grand ceremony.
answered 5 hours ago
ZebrafishZebrafish
10.2k31336
If you imagine an ellipsis of the words "have been" then you get:
- Many have been buggy or [have been] poor experiences.
I don't exactly know what rules there are for ellipsis, and how much you are allowed to omit. For example:
- If I had won the election I would have done more for this country than any other candidate.
[would]
[have]
[done]
[for this country]
As I said, I don't know the rules of how much you are allowed to leave out exactly. Ending with "would" may be questionable and possibly have a different meaning, but ending with any of the others I think would largely have the same meaning.
Another simple example:
- I have been recognized and [I] [have been] awarded at a grand ceremony.
answered 5 hours ago
ZebrafishZebrafish
10.2k31336
edited 5 hours ago
answered 5 hours ago
ZebrafishZebrafish
10.2k31336
answered 5 hours ago
ZebrafishZebrafish
10.2k31336
answered 5 hours ago
ZebrafishZebrafish
10.2k31336
10.2k31336
add a comment |
add a comment |
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1
It seems difficult to imagine something that could both be buggy and also could have a poor experience. Are you sure that "have been buggy or have been poor experiences" wasn't what was intended?
– Peter Shor
12 hours ago
@PeterShor , It was like "Many video games have failed last year; Many [video games] have been buggy or poor experiences." and I thought it was trying to say that "the video games have poor [user] experiences" probably because of bad design and bugs, from the rest of the article ; but your interpretation is also valid. If my interpretation is the intended interpretation, would (A) be improper ?
– Prem
12 hours ago
1
(A) is not wrong. It is just harder to parse due to gapping, which is the omission of some elements in a coordination, in this case by the or, that would otherwise be repeated. When the sentence is complicated then sometimes it is worth it not to avoid the repetition like what you did in (B). However, you missed another possible candidate. It is possible to assume that experiences is also part of the omitted content. This results in Many have been buggy [experiences] or [have been] poor experiences.
– mama
5 hours ago