“Cheaper by the dozen” phrase origin?
Over on Politics.Meta.SE a comment by user Guest271314 asserts a repugnant etymology:
...You cannot expect readers to parse when you are engaging in direct communication or "colloquially" speaking. For example, "cheaper by the dozen" is a "colloquial" English term that actually refers to plantation owners forcing prisoners of war to impregnate their mother, resulting in a "dozen" "cheap" children with severe birth defects.
– guest271314 Jan 17 at 18:59
On the other hand, Google Ngram has nothing from the 19th century that remotely suggests such an origin. Its earliest Ngram usage is from The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, March 1844, and refers to copies of a Masonic handbook for sale.
What is the origin of the phrase "cheaper by the dozen"?
idioms phrase-origin
|
show 3 more comments
Over on Politics.Meta.SE a comment by user Guest271314 asserts a repugnant etymology:
...You cannot expect readers to parse when you are engaging in direct communication or "colloquially" speaking. For example, "cheaper by the dozen" is a "colloquial" English term that actually refers to plantation owners forcing prisoners of war to impregnate their mother, resulting in a "dozen" "cheap" children with severe birth defects.
– guest271314 Jan 17 at 18:59
On the other hand, Google Ngram has nothing from the 19th century that remotely suggests such an origin. Its earliest Ngram usage is from The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, March 1844, and refers to copies of a Masonic handbook for sale.
What is the origin of the phrase "cheaper by the dozen"?
idioms phrase-origin
11
I've heard the term used in many different contexts, often with less than complimentary innuendo attached. But it's hard to believe that the origin isn't street barkers yelling "One pence a piece -- cheaper by the dozen."
– Hot Licks
12 hours ago
12
I don’t believe guest271314’s assertion. You should ask them to prove it.
– Jim
12 hours ago
2
Street barkers wouldn't have yelled "One pence apiece". "One penny", or more likely, "a penny". Pence is the plural of penny. That is not to say that "one pence" is not a thing in British usage, but it is an illiterate and non-standard thing that came in after decimalisation in 1971, when barkers were long gone.
– Michael Harvey
10 hours ago
1
@agc If accurately recollect, the knowledge of the origin or usage of the phrase was shared by the late Dick Gregory. Since Dick Gregory has thousands of hours of interviews, lectures and volumes of published literature, may take some time to locate the actual quote, or description of use of the term. It should not be surprising. The quote describes the practices of colonial and later U.S. persons and entities who experimented on prisoners of war (referred to as "slaves") by englishmen; there would be no modern medicine without those intentional diabolical practices e.g see Medical Apartheid
– guest271314
5 hours ago
1
@agc This interview begins with how the word honky came about by so-called "white" men visiting whore houses to buy sex from so-called "black" women and honking their horn. The interview also mentions the practice of young male forcing prisoners of war (so-called "slaves") to have sex with their mother in what is now called "United States": the purpose was to create more "slaves": that is where the word motherfucker comes from Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes. Though will continue to look for the exact reference
– guest271314
5 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
Over on Politics.Meta.SE a comment by user Guest271314 asserts a repugnant etymology:
...You cannot expect readers to parse when you are engaging in direct communication or "colloquially" speaking. For example, "cheaper by the dozen" is a "colloquial" English term that actually refers to plantation owners forcing prisoners of war to impregnate their mother, resulting in a "dozen" "cheap" children with severe birth defects.
– guest271314 Jan 17 at 18:59
On the other hand, Google Ngram has nothing from the 19th century that remotely suggests such an origin. Its earliest Ngram usage is from The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, March 1844, and refers to copies of a Masonic handbook for sale.
What is the origin of the phrase "cheaper by the dozen"?
idioms phrase-origin
Over on Politics.Meta.SE a comment by user Guest271314 asserts a repugnant etymology:
...You cannot expect readers to parse when you are engaging in direct communication or "colloquially" speaking. For example, "cheaper by the dozen" is a "colloquial" English term that actually refers to plantation owners forcing prisoners of war to impregnate their mother, resulting in a "dozen" "cheap" children with severe birth defects.
– guest271314 Jan 17 at 18:59
On the other hand, Google Ngram has nothing from the 19th century that remotely suggests such an origin. Its earliest Ngram usage is from The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, March 1844, and refers to copies of a Masonic handbook for sale.
What is the origin of the phrase "cheaper by the dozen"?
idioms phrase-origin
idioms phrase-origin
asked 13 hours ago
agcagc
2,556625
2,556625
11
I've heard the term used in many different contexts, often with less than complimentary innuendo attached. But it's hard to believe that the origin isn't street barkers yelling "One pence a piece -- cheaper by the dozen."
– Hot Licks
12 hours ago
12
I don’t believe guest271314’s assertion. You should ask them to prove it.
– Jim
12 hours ago
2
Street barkers wouldn't have yelled "One pence apiece". "One penny", or more likely, "a penny". Pence is the plural of penny. That is not to say that "one pence" is not a thing in British usage, but it is an illiterate and non-standard thing that came in after decimalisation in 1971, when barkers were long gone.
– Michael Harvey
10 hours ago
1
@agc If accurately recollect, the knowledge of the origin or usage of the phrase was shared by the late Dick Gregory. Since Dick Gregory has thousands of hours of interviews, lectures and volumes of published literature, may take some time to locate the actual quote, or description of use of the term. It should not be surprising. The quote describes the practices of colonial and later U.S. persons and entities who experimented on prisoners of war (referred to as "slaves") by englishmen; there would be no modern medicine without those intentional diabolical practices e.g see Medical Apartheid
– guest271314
5 hours ago
1
@agc This interview begins with how the word honky came about by so-called "white" men visiting whore houses to buy sex from so-called "black" women and honking their horn. The interview also mentions the practice of young male forcing prisoners of war (so-called "slaves") to have sex with their mother in what is now called "United States": the purpose was to create more "slaves": that is where the word motherfucker comes from Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes. Though will continue to look for the exact reference
– guest271314
5 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
11
I've heard the term used in many different contexts, often with less than complimentary innuendo attached. But it's hard to believe that the origin isn't street barkers yelling "One pence a piece -- cheaper by the dozen."
– Hot Licks
12 hours ago
12
I don’t believe guest271314’s assertion. You should ask them to prove it.
– Jim
12 hours ago
2
Street barkers wouldn't have yelled "One pence apiece". "One penny", or more likely, "a penny". Pence is the plural of penny. That is not to say that "one pence" is not a thing in British usage, but it is an illiterate and non-standard thing that came in after decimalisation in 1971, when barkers were long gone.
– Michael Harvey
10 hours ago
1
@agc If accurately recollect, the knowledge of the origin or usage of the phrase was shared by the late Dick Gregory. Since Dick Gregory has thousands of hours of interviews, lectures and volumes of published literature, may take some time to locate the actual quote, or description of use of the term. It should not be surprising. The quote describes the practices of colonial and later U.S. persons and entities who experimented on prisoners of war (referred to as "slaves") by englishmen; there would be no modern medicine without those intentional diabolical practices e.g see Medical Apartheid
– guest271314
5 hours ago
1
@agc This interview begins with how the word honky came about by so-called "white" men visiting whore houses to buy sex from so-called "black" women and honking their horn. The interview also mentions the practice of young male forcing prisoners of war (so-called "slaves") to have sex with their mother in what is now called "United States": the purpose was to create more "slaves": that is where the word motherfucker comes from Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes. Though will continue to look for the exact reference
– guest271314
5 hours ago
11
11
I've heard the term used in many different contexts, often with less than complimentary innuendo attached. But it's hard to believe that the origin isn't street barkers yelling "One pence a piece -- cheaper by the dozen."
– Hot Licks
12 hours ago
I've heard the term used in many different contexts, often with less than complimentary innuendo attached. But it's hard to believe that the origin isn't street barkers yelling "One pence a piece -- cheaper by the dozen."
– Hot Licks
12 hours ago
12
12
I don’t believe guest271314’s assertion. You should ask them to prove it.
– Jim
12 hours ago
I don’t believe guest271314’s assertion. You should ask them to prove it.
– Jim
12 hours ago
2
2
Street barkers wouldn't have yelled "One pence apiece". "One penny", or more likely, "a penny". Pence is the plural of penny. That is not to say that "one pence" is not a thing in British usage, but it is an illiterate and non-standard thing that came in after decimalisation in 1971, when barkers were long gone.
– Michael Harvey
10 hours ago
Street barkers wouldn't have yelled "One pence apiece". "One penny", or more likely, "a penny". Pence is the plural of penny. That is not to say that "one pence" is not a thing in British usage, but it is an illiterate and non-standard thing that came in after decimalisation in 1971, when barkers were long gone.
– Michael Harvey
10 hours ago
1
1
@agc If accurately recollect, the knowledge of the origin or usage of the phrase was shared by the late Dick Gregory. Since Dick Gregory has thousands of hours of interviews, lectures and volumes of published literature, may take some time to locate the actual quote, or description of use of the term. It should not be surprising. The quote describes the practices of colonial and later U.S. persons and entities who experimented on prisoners of war (referred to as "slaves") by englishmen; there would be no modern medicine without those intentional diabolical practices e.g see Medical Apartheid
– guest271314
5 hours ago
@agc If accurately recollect, the knowledge of the origin or usage of the phrase was shared by the late Dick Gregory. Since Dick Gregory has thousands of hours of interviews, lectures and volumes of published literature, may take some time to locate the actual quote, or description of use of the term. It should not be surprising. The quote describes the practices of colonial and later U.S. persons and entities who experimented on prisoners of war (referred to as "slaves") by englishmen; there would be no modern medicine without those intentional diabolical practices e.g see Medical Apartheid
– guest271314
5 hours ago
1
1
@agc This interview begins with how the word honky came about by so-called "white" men visiting whore houses to buy sex from so-called "black" women and honking their horn. The interview also mentions the practice of young male forcing prisoners of war (so-called "slaves") to have sex with their mother in what is now called "United States": the purpose was to create more "slaves": that is where the word motherfucker comes from Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes. Though will continue to look for the exact reference
– guest271314
5 hours ago
@agc This interview begins with how the word honky came about by so-called "white" men visiting whore houses to buy sex from so-called "black" women and honking their horn. The interview also mentions the practice of young male forcing prisoners of war (so-called "slaves") to have sex with their mother in what is now called "United States": the purpose was to create more "slaves": that is where the word motherfucker comes from Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes. Though will continue to look for the exact reference
– guest271314
5 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
4 Answers
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Using Eighteenth Century Collections Online, I found this note at the end of an anti-Catholic pamphlet titled A Protestant's Revolution (Dublin, 1734), where other pamphlets by the same publisher ("S. Hyde, Widow in Dame-street") are advertised for publication. At the end of the list appears a nota bene:
N. B. The above Books are sold cheaper by the Dozen or the Hundred.
The statement appears to appeal to cost in bulk.
It's hard to know when the phrasing became idiom, but this example occurring so early and in the context of selling books suggests that its origins were likely in something as prosaic as what the words literally mean together in a marketing context and not a peculiar plantation breeding program that should be well-documented but yields nothing in the resources I've used so far.
add a comment |
The earliest variant of the phrase I could verify in print was 'cheaper in the dozen', from an article in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 24 May 1790 (paywalled, emphasis mine):
In New-York the price [of Webster's Spelling-books] has commonly been thirteen shillings New-York currency a dozen, which is three-pence lawful money cheaper in the dozen....
The exact phrase 'cheaper by the dozen' turns up a dozen years later, in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 12 Jul 1802 (paywalled, bold emphasis mine):
N. B. Said Chadwick will sell Morocco [leather shoes] cheaper by the dozen than can be bought at any store in this state.
Considering the context of the early uses, and the semantics of the phrase itself, the origin of the phrase is likely to have been marketing jargon.
With due respect to the fanciful folk etymology you encountered, which in fact deserves only scorn and disrespect, I observe that the phrase was more recently popularized by the 1948 book Cheaper by the Dozen (Frank B Gilbreth and Ernestine Gilbreth Carey), a central theme of which was the putative efficiencies of having a dozen children. Thus, it might be proposed that the title of the book derived from the obviously fictitious practice involving prisoners-of-war.
However, even supposing the authors of the book confessed that the title was sponsored by a scurrilous story, that story is not evidence supporting an origin for the phrase.
4
"the story itself betrays ignorance or disregard of genetic principles by ascribing "severe birth defects" to a single generation of inbreeding." That's the least of it. In what war were the mothers' of prisoners at hand, on a plantation no less. And how would this action result in a dozen children and what makes them cheaper? Cheaper in the value to the plantation owner? What advantage would that give? Utter nonsense.
– JimmyJames
8 hours ago
add a comment |
I cannot give you an early attestation for the exact phrase "cheaper by the dozen" but the idea is common:
The proper worsted for knitting the stockings is of four-threads, at two-pence an ounce ; but if bought by the dozen pounds, is sold at twenty- four shillings the dozen, which is only three halfpence an ounce ...
from Instructions for Cutting Out Apparel for the Poor etc etc (London, 1789).
add a comment |
This is just a placeholder answer while look for the complete connection to the phrase "cheaper by the dozen".
We know that englishmen in the colonies and what would become the "United States" forced prisoners of war (what englishmen refer to as "slaves") to have sexual intercourse with their mothers, in an effort to produce more prisoners of war, for free labor, fun, glory, material gain, and experimentation, see Medical Apartheid
The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present by Harriet A. Washington. Forcing young prisoners of war to impregnate their mothers is but one of the horrendous practices of englishmen in the western hemisphere. Without such experiments what is referred to "modern medicine" would not exist. If you find the time, browse the historical medical records of the University of Chicago.
That is the origin of the term motherfucker from which the cheaper by the dozen phrase was used to refer to the offspring of such forced impregnation.
The late Dick Gregory revealed many of these historical facts before their passing. It has been some time since last reviewed the actual phrases usage. Am not entirely certain if Dick Gregory is the one and only source of the meaning of that phrase, within the context of the offspring of male prisoners of war in the western hemisphere being forced to impregnate their mothers to produce more prisoners of war.
It is not surprising that anglophiles deny, or refute such origins of terms in the english language.
Though for an individual who is not an englophile, it is common knowledge that english is first and foremost an equivocal language, intended to be used for deception, capable of having more than one meaning for each word or phrase. There is no such thing as "good" or "proper" english. The language is a result of conquest by the Normans, Romans, whores, convicts, pimps, murderers, imperialism and several hundred years of institutional white supremacy.
In any event, this Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes
... we can't have no more. How we gonna do this?... So he made me, 14
years old, put a sock over my head, and have sex, fuck my mama...
...cause she didn't want him to get made and start killing the
slaves...
... and so, I had to screw my mama man...
... That's where the word motherfucker comes from and then white
boys shit and they hated the word until they got around black folks...
... and now you go to a white movie and they say mothafucka before
they finish running the credits from the movie...
is a brief introduction to the emergence of the phrase "cheaper by the dozen" being used to refer to the offspring of so-called "black" or african women in the western hemisphere being force to be impregnated by their sons, the result of which was often birth defects, which were still valuable "property" for those englishmen who bought and sold human beings. The interview provides accounts for the origin of the terms honky and motherfucker. Will edit the answer to address specifically how the motherfucker history resulted in cheaper by the dozen.
Note, that same interview describes the origin of the term honky, which is derived from english, or so-called "white" men literally honking the horn of their vehicle outside of the whorehouse they were visiting to buy sex from so-called "black" women.
New contributor
6
So your source is a comedy act? All of the "etymologies" he gives are highly questionable (if he's even serious), especially the one for "honky" given that the term was used as a slur by whites for foreigners and factory workers well before it was used as a slur by black people for whites in general. (For the earlier meaning, see for example here)
– Laurel
4 hours ago
@Laurel, Re "a comedy act": not in this context, no. Which is to say comedians usually, (or perhaps must invariably), have their serious sides, and a wide variety of pre- and post-comedy vocations and interests.
– agc
1 hour ago
add a comment |
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Using Eighteenth Century Collections Online, I found this note at the end of an anti-Catholic pamphlet titled A Protestant's Revolution (Dublin, 1734), where other pamphlets by the same publisher ("S. Hyde, Widow in Dame-street") are advertised for publication. At the end of the list appears a nota bene:
N. B. The above Books are sold cheaper by the Dozen or the Hundred.
The statement appears to appeal to cost in bulk.
It's hard to know when the phrasing became idiom, but this example occurring so early and in the context of selling books suggests that its origins were likely in something as prosaic as what the words literally mean together in a marketing context and not a peculiar plantation breeding program that should be well-documented but yields nothing in the resources I've used so far.
add a comment |
Using Eighteenth Century Collections Online, I found this note at the end of an anti-Catholic pamphlet titled A Protestant's Revolution (Dublin, 1734), where other pamphlets by the same publisher ("S. Hyde, Widow in Dame-street") are advertised for publication. At the end of the list appears a nota bene:
N. B. The above Books are sold cheaper by the Dozen or the Hundred.
The statement appears to appeal to cost in bulk.
It's hard to know when the phrasing became idiom, but this example occurring so early and in the context of selling books suggests that its origins were likely in something as prosaic as what the words literally mean together in a marketing context and not a peculiar plantation breeding program that should be well-documented but yields nothing in the resources I've used so far.
add a comment |
Using Eighteenth Century Collections Online, I found this note at the end of an anti-Catholic pamphlet titled A Protestant's Revolution (Dublin, 1734), where other pamphlets by the same publisher ("S. Hyde, Widow in Dame-street") are advertised for publication. At the end of the list appears a nota bene:
N. B. The above Books are sold cheaper by the Dozen or the Hundred.
The statement appears to appeal to cost in bulk.
It's hard to know when the phrasing became idiom, but this example occurring so early and in the context of selling books suggests that its origins were likely in something as prosaic as what the words literally mean together in a marketing context and not a peculiar plantation breeding program that should be well-documented but yields nothing in the resources I've used so far.
Using Eighteenth Century Collections Online, I found this note at the end of an anti-Catholic pamphlet titled A Protestant's Revolution (Dublin, 1734), where other pamphlets by the same publisher ("S. Hyde, Widow in Dame-street") are advertised for publication. At the end of the list appears a nota bene:
N. B. The above Books are sold cheaper by the Dozen or the Hundred.
The statement appears to appeal to cost in bulk.
It's hard to know when the phrasing became idiom, but this example occurring so early and in the context of selling books suggests that its origins were likely in something as prosaic as what the words literally mean together in a marketing context and not a peculiar plantation breeding program that should be well-documented but yields nothing in the resources I've used so far.
edited 9 hours ago
answered 11 hours ago
TaliesinMerlinTaliesinMerlin
3,769524
3,769524
add a comment |
add a comment |
The earliest variant of the phrase I could verify in print was 'cheaper in the dozen', from an article in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 24 May 1790 (paywalled, emphasis mine):
In New-York the price [of Webster's Spelling-books] has commonly been thirteen shillings New-York currency a dozen, which is three-pence lawful money cheaper in the dozen....
The exact phrase 'cheaper by the dozen' turns up a dozen years later, in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 12 Jul 1802 (paywalled, bold emphasis mine):
N. B. Said Chadwick will sell Morocco [leather shoes] cheaper by the dozen than can be bought at any store in this state.
Considering the context of the early uses, and the semantics of the phrase itself, the origin of the phrase is likely to have been marketing jargon.
With due respect to the fanciful folk etymology you encountered, which in fact deserves only scorn and disrespect, I observe that the phrase was more recently popularized by the 1948 book Cheaper by the Dozen (Frank B Gilbreth and Ernestine Gilbreth Carey), a central theme of which was the putative efficiencies of having a dozen children. Thus, it might be proposed that the title of the book derived from the obviously fictitious practice involving prisoners-of-war.
However, even supposing the authors of the book confessed that the title was sponsored by a scurrilous story, that story is not evidence supporting an origin for the phrase.
4
"the story itself betrays ignorance or disregard of genetic principles by ascribing "severe birth defects" to a single generation of inbreeding." That's the least of it. In what war were the mothers' of prisoners at hand, on a plantation no less. And how would this action result in a dozen children and what makes them cheaper? Cheaper in the value to the plantation owner? What advantage would that give? Utter nonsense.
– JimmyJames
8 hours ago
add a comment |
The earliest variant of the phrase I could verify in print was 'cheaper in the dozen', from an article in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 24 May 1790 (paywalled, emphasis mine):
In New-York the price [of Webster's Spelling-books] has commonly been thirteen shillings New-York currency a dozen, which is three-pence lawful money cheaper in the dozen....
The exact phrase 'cheaper by the dozen' turns up a dozen years later, in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 12 Jul 1802 (paywalled, bold emphasis mine):
N. B. Said Chadwick will sell Morocco [leather shoes] cheaper by the dozen than can be bought at any store in this state.
Considering the context of the early uses, and the semantics of the phrase itself, the origin of the phrase is likely to have been marketing jargon.
With due respect to the fanciful folk etymology you encountered, which in fact deserves only scorn and disrespect, I observe that the phrase was more recently popularized by the 1948 book Cheaper by the Dozen (Frank B Gilbreth and Ernestine Gilbreth Carey), a central theme of which was the putative efficiencies of having a dozen children. Thus, it might be proposed that the title of the book derived from the obviously fictitious practice involving prisoners-of-war.
However, even supposing the authors of the book confessed that the title was sponsored by a scurrilous story, that story is not evidence supporting an origin for the phrase.
4
"the story itself betrays ignorance or disregard of genetic principles by ascribing "severe birth defects" to a single generation of inbreeding." That's the least of it. In what war were the mothers' of prisoners at hand, on a plantation no less. And how would this action result in a dozen children and what makes them cheaper? Cheaper in the value to the plantation owner? What advantage would that give? Utter nonsense.
– JimmyJames
8 hours ago
add a comment |
The earliest variant of the phrase I could verify in print was 'cheaper in the dozen', from an article in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 24 May 1790 (paywalled, emphasis mine):
In New-York the price [of Webster's Spelling-books] has commonly been thirteen shillings New-York currency a dozen, which is three-pence lawful money cheaper in the dozen....
The exact phrase 'cheaper by the dozen' turns up a dozen years later, in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 12 Jul 1802 (paywalled, bold emphasis mine):
N. B. Said Chadwick will sell Morocco [leather shoes] cheaper by the dozen than can be bought at any store in this state.
Considering the context of the early uses, and the semantics of the phrase itself, the origin of the phrase is likely to have been marketing jargon.
With due respect to the fanciful folk etymology you encountered, which in fact deserves only scorn and disrespect, I observe that the phrase was more recently popularized by the 1948 book Cheaper by the Dozen (Frank B Gilbreth and Ernestine Gilbreth Carey), a central theme of which was the putative efficiencies of having a dozen children. Thus, it might be proposed that the title of the book derived from the obviously fictitious practice involving prisoners-of-war.
However, even supposing the authors of the book confessed that the title was sponsored by a scurrilous story, that story is not evidence supporting an origin for the phrase.
The earliest variant of the phrase I could verify in print was 'cheaper in the dozen', from an article in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 24 May 1790 (paywalled, emphasis mine):
In New-York the price [of Webster's Spelling-books] has commonly been thirteen shillings New-York currency a dozen, which is three-pence lawful money cheaper in the dozen....
The exact phrase 'cheaper by the dozen' turns up a dozen years later, in the Hartford Courant (Hartford, Connecticut) of 12 Jul 1802 (paywalled, bold emphasis mine):
N. B. Said Chadwick will sell Morocco [leather shoes] cheaper by the dozen than can be bought at any store in this state.
Considering the context of the early uses, and the semantics of the phrase itself, the origin of the phrase is likely to have been marketing jargon.
With due respect to the fanciful folk etymology you encountered, which in fact deserves only scorn and disrespect, I observe that the phrase was more recently popularized by the 1948 book Cheaper by the Dozen (Frank B Gilbreth and Ernestine Gilbreth Carey), a central theme of which was the putative efficiencies of having a dozen children. Thus, it might be proposed that the title of the book derived from the obviously fictitious practice involving prisoners-of-war.
However, even supposing the authors of the book confessed that the title was sponsored by a scurrilous story, that story is not evidence supporting an origin for the phrase.
edited 39 mins ago
answered 11 hours ago
JELJEL
27.5k45193
27.5k45193
4
"the story itself betrays ignorance or disregard of genetic principles by ascribing "severe birth defects" to a single generation of inbreeding." That's the least of it. In what war were the mothers' of prisoners at hand, on a plantation no less. And how would this action result in a dozen children and what makes them cheaper? Cheaper in the value to the plantation owner? What advantage would that give? Utter nonsense.
– JimmyJames
8 hours ago
add a comment |
4
"the story itself betrays ignorance or disregard of genetic principles by ascribing "severe birth defects" to a single generation of inbreeding." That's the least of it. In what war were the mothers' of prisoners at hand, on a plantation no less. And how would this action result in a dozen children and what makes them cheaper? Cheaper in the value to the plantation owner? What advantage would that give? Utter nonsense.
– JimmyJames
8 hours ago
4
4
"the story itself betrays ignorance or disregard of genetic principles by ascribing "severe birth defects" to a single generation of inbreeding." That's the least of it. In what war were the mothers' of prisoners at hand, on a plantation no less. And how would this action result in a dozen children and what makes them cheaper? Cheaper in the value to the plantation owner? What advantage would that give? Utter nonsense.
– JimmyJames
8 hours ago
"the story itself betrays ignorance or disregard of genetic principles by ascribing "severe birth defects" to a single generation of inbreeding." That's the least of it. In what war were the mothers' of prisoners at hand, on a plantation no less. And how would this action result in a dozen children and what makes them cheaper? Cheaper in the value to the plantation owner? What advantage would that give? Utter nonsense.
– JimmyJames
8 hours ago
add a comment |
I cannot give you an early attestation for the exact phrase "cheaper by the dozen" but the idea is common:
The proper worsted for knitting the stockings is of four-threads, at two-pence an ounce ; but if bought by the dozen pounds, is sold at twenty- four shillings the dozen, which is only three halfpence an ounce ...
from Instructions for Cutting Out Apparel for the Poor etc etc (London, 1789).
add a comment |
I cannot give you an early attestation for the exact phrase "cheaper by the dozen" but the idea is common:
The proper worsted for knitting the stockings is of four-threads, at two-pence an ounce ; but if bought by the dozen pounds, is sold at twenty- four shillings the dozen, which is only three halfpence an ounce ...
from Instructions for Cutting Out Apparel for the Poor etc etc (London, 1789).
add a comment |
I cannot give you an early attestation for the exact phrase "cheaper by the dozen" but the idea is common:
The proper worsted for knitting the stockings is of four-threads, at two-pence an ounce ; but if bought by the dozen pounds, is sold at twenty- four shillings the dozen, which is only three halfpence an ounce ...
from Instructions for Cutting Out Apparel for the Poor etc etc (London, 1789).
I cannot give you an early attestation for the exact phrase "cheaper by the dozen" but the idea is common:
The proper worsted for knitting the stockings is of four-threads, at two-pence an ounce ; but if bought by the dozen pounds, is sold at twenty- four shillings the dozen, which is only three halfpence an ounce ...
from Instructions for Cutting Out Apparel for the Poor etc etc (London, 1789).
answered 12 hours ago
TRomanoTRomano
15.7k21943
15.7k21943
add a comment |
add a comment |
This is just a placeholder answer while look for the complete connection to the phrase "cheaper by the dozen".
We know that englishmen in the colonies and what would become the "United States" forced prisoners of war (what englishmen refer to as "slaves") to have sexual intercourse with their mothers, in an effort to produce more prisoners of war, for free labor, fun, glory, material gain, and experimentation, see Medical Apartheid
The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present by Harriet A. Washington. Forcing young prisoners of war to impregnate their mothers is but one of the horrendous practices of englishmen in the western hemisphere. Without such experiments what is referred to "modern medicine" would not exist. If you find the time, browse the historical medical records of the University of Chicago.
That is the origin of the term motherfucker from which the cheaper by the dozen phrase was used to refer to the offspring of such forced impregnation.
The late Dick Gregory revealed many of these historical facts before their passing. It has been some time since last reviewed the actual phrases usage. Am not entirely certain if Dick Gregory is the one and only source of the meaning of that phrase, within the context of the offspring of male prisoners of war in the western hemisphere being forced to impregnate their mothers to produce more prisoners of war.
It is not surprising that anglophiles deny, or refute such origins of terms in the english language.
Though for an individual who is not an englophile, it is common knowledge that english is first and foremost an equivocal language, intended to be used for deception, capable of having more than one meaning for each word or phrase. There is no such thing as "good" or "proper" english. The language is a result of conquest by the Normans, Romans, whores, convicts, pimps, murderers, imperialism and several hundred years of institutional white supremacy.
In any event, this Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes
... we can't have no more. How we gonna do this?... So he made me, 14
years old, put a sock over my head, and have sex, fuck my mama...
...cause she didn't want him to get made and start killing the
slaves...
... and so, I had to screw my mama man...
... That's where the word motherfucker comes from and then white
boys shit and they hated the word until they got around black folks...
... and now you go to a white movie and they say mothafucka before
they finish running the credits from the movie...
is a brief introduction to the emergence of the phrase "cheaper by the dozen" being used to refer to the offspring of so-called "black" or african women in the western hemisphere being force to be impregnated by their sons, the result of which was often birth defects, which were still valuable "property" for those englishmen who bought and sold human beings. The interview provides accounts for the origin of the terms honky and motherfucker. Will edit the answer to address specifically how the motherfucker history resulted in cheaper by the dozen.
Note, that same interview describes the origin of the term honky, which is derived from english, or so-called "white" men literally honking the horn of their vehicle outside of the whorehouse they were visiting to buy sex from so-called "black" women.
New contributor
6
So your source is a comedy act? All of the "etymologies" he gives are highly questionable (if he's even serious), especially the one for "honky" given that the term was used as a slur by whites for foreigners and factory workers well before it was used as a slur by black people for whites in general. (For the earlier meaning, see for example here)
– Laurel
4 hours ago
@Laurel, Re "a comedy act": not in this context, no. Which is to say comedians usually, (or perhaps must invariably), have their serious sides, and a wide variety of pre- and post-comedy vocations and interests.
– agc
1 hour ago
add a comment |
This is just a placeholder answer while look for the complete connection to the phrase "cheaper by the dozen".
We know that englishmen in the colonies and what would become the "United States" forced prisoners of war (what englishmen refer to as "slaves") to have sexual intercourse with their mothers, in an effort to produce more prisoners of war, for free labor, fun, glory, material gain, and experimentation, see Medical Apartheid
The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present by Harriet A. Washington. Forcing young prisoners of war to impregnate their mothers is but one of the horrendous practices of englishmen in the western hemisphere. Without such experiments what is referred to "modern medicine" would not exist. If you find the time, browse the historical medical records of the University of Chicago.
That is the origin of the term motherfucker from which the cheaper by the dozen phrase was used to refer to the offspring of such forced impregnation.
The late Dick Gregory revealed many of these historical facts before their passing. It has been some time since last reviewed the actual phrases usage. Am not entirely certain if Dick Gregory is the one and only source of the meaning of that phrase, within the context of the offspring of male prisoners of war in the western hemisphere being forced to impregnate their mothers to produce more prisoners of war.
It is not surprising that anglophiles deny, or refute such origins of terms in the english language.
Though for an individual who is not an englophile, it is common knowledge that english is first and foremost an equivocal language, intended to be used for deception, capable of having more than one meaning for each word or phrase. There is no such thing as "good" or "proper" english. The language is a result of conquest by the Normans, Romans, whores, convicts, pimps, murderers, imperialism and several hundred years of institutional white supremacy.
In any event, this Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes
... we can't have no more. How we gonna do this?... So he made me, 14
years old, put a sock over my head, and have sex, fuck my mama...
...cause she didn't want him to get made and start killing the
slaves...
... and so, I had to screw my mama man...
... That's where the word motherfucker comes from and then white
boys shit and they hated the word until they got around black folks...
... and now you go to a white movie and they say mothafucka before
they finish running the credits from the movie...
is a brief introduction to the emergence of the phrase "cheaper by the dozen" being used to refer to the offspring of so-called "black" or african women in the western hemisphere being force to be impregnated by their sons, the result of which was often birth defects, which were still valuable "property" for those englishmen who bought and sold human beings. The interview provides accounts for the origin of the terms honky and motherfucker. Will edit the answer to address specifically how the motherfucker history resulted in cheaper by the dozen.
Note, that same interview describes the origin of the term honky, which is derived from english, or so-called "white" men literally honking the horn of their vehicle outside of the whorehouse they were visiting to buy sex from so-called "black" women.
New contributor
6
So your source is a comedy act? All of the "etymologies" he gives are highly questionable (if he's even serious), especially the one for "honky" given that the term was used as a slur by whites for foreigners and factory workers well before it was used as a slur by black people for whites in general. (For the earlier meaning, see for example here)
– Laurel
4 hours ago
@Laurel, Re "a comedy act": not in this context, no. Which is to say comedians usually, (or perhaps must invariably), have their serious sides, and a wide variety of pre- and post-comedy vocations and interests.
– agc
1 hour ago
add a comment |
This is just a placeholder answer while look for the complete connection to the phrase "cheaper by the dozen".
We know that englishmen in the colonies and what would become the "United States" forced prisoners of war (what englishmen refer to as "slaves") to have sexual intercourse with their mothers, in an effort to produce more prisoners of war, for free labor, fun, glory, material gain, and experimentation, see Medical Apartheid
The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present by Harriet A. Washington. Forcing young prisoners of war to impregnate their mothers is but one of the horrendous practices of englishmen in the western hemisphere. Without such experiments what is referred to "modern medicine" would not exist. If you find the time, browse the historical medical records of the University of Chicago.
That is the origin of the term motherfucker from which the cheaper by the dozen phrase was used to refer to the offspring of such forced impregnation.
The late Dick Gregory revealed many of these historical facts before their passing. It has been some time since last reviewed the actual phrases usage. Am not entirely certain if Dick Gregory is the one and only source of the meaning of that phrase, within the context of the offspring of male prisoners of war in the western hemisphere being forced to impregnate their mothers to produce more prisoners of war.
It is not surprising that anglophiles deny, or refute such origins of terms in the english language.
Though for an individual who is not an englophile, it is common knowledge that english is first and foremost an equivocal language, intended to be used for deception, capable of having more than one meaning for each word or phrase. There is no such thing as "good" or "proper" english. The language is a result of conquest by the Normans, Romans, whores, convicts, pimps, murderers, imperialism and several hundred years of institutional white supremacy.
In any event, this Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes
... we can't have no more. How we gonna do this?... So he made me, 14
years old, put a sock over my head, and have sex, fuck my mama...
...cause she didn't want him to get made and start killing the
slaves...
... and so, I had to screw my mama man...
... That's where the word motherfucker comes from and then white
boys shit and they hated the word until they got around black folks...
... and now you go to a white movie and they say mothafucka before
they finish running the credits from the movie...
is a brief introduction to the emergence of the phrase "cheaper by the dozen" being used to refer to the offspring of so-called "black" or african women in the western hemisphere being force to be impregnated by their sons, the result of which was often birth defects, which were still valuable "property" for those englishmen who bought and sold human beings. The interview provides accounts for the origin of the terms honky and motherfucker. Will edit the answer to address specifically how the motherfucker history resulted in cheaper by the dozen.
Note, that same interview describes the origin of the term honky, which is derived from english, or so-called "white" men literally honking the horn of their vehicle outside of the whorehouse they were visiting to buy sex from so-called "black" women.
New contributor
This is just a placeholder answer while look for the complete connection to the phrase "cheaper by the dozen".
We know that englishmen in the colonies and what would become the "United States" forced prisoners of war (what englishmen refer to as "slaves") to have sexual intercourse with their mothers, in an effort to produce more prisoners of war, for free labor, fun, glory, material gain, and experimentation, see Medical Apartheid
The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present by Harriet A. Washington. Forcing young prisoners of war to impregnate their mothers is but one of the horrendous practices of englishmen in the western hemisphere. Without such experiments what is referred to "modern medicine" would not exist. If you find the time, browse the historical medical records of the University of Chicago.
That is the origin of the term motherfucker from which the cheaper by the dozen phrase was used to refer to the offspring of such forced impregnation.
The late Dick Gregory revealed many of these historical facts before their passing. It has been some time since last reviewed the actual phrases usage. Am not entirely certain if Dick Gregory is the one and only source of the meaning of that phrase, within the context of the offspring of male prisoners of war in the western hemisphere being forced to impregnate their mothers to produce more prisoners of war.
It is not surprising that anglophiles deny, or refute such origins of terms in the english language.
Though for an individual who is not an englophile, it is common knowledge that english is first and foremost an equivocal language, intended to be used for deception, capable of having more than one meaning for each word or phrase. There is no such thing as "good" or "proper" english. The language is a result of conquest by the Normans, Romans, whores, convicts, pimps, murderers, imperialism and several hundred years of institutional white supremacy.
In any event, this Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes
... we can't have no more. How we gonna do this?... So he made me, 14
years old, put a sock over my head, and have sex, fuck my mama...
...cause she didn't want him to get made and start killing the
slaves...
... and so, I had to screw my mama man...
... That's where the word motherfucker comes from and then white
boys shit and they hated the word until they got around black folks...
... and now you go to a white movie and they say mothafucka before
they finish running the credits from the movie...
is a brief introduction to the emergence of the phrase "cheaper by the dozen" being used to refer to the offspring of so-called "black" or african women in the western hemisphere being force to be impregnated by their sons, the result of which was often birth defects, which were still valuable "property" for those englishmen who bought and sold human beings. The interview provides accounts for the origin of the terms honky and motherfucker. Will edit the answer to address specifically how the motherfucker history resulted in cheaper by the dozen.
Note, that same interview describes the origin of the term honky, which is derived from english, or so-called "white" men literally honking the horn of their vehicle outside of the whorehouse they were visiting to buy sex from so-called "black" women.
New contributor
edited 2 hours ago
agc
2,556625
2,556625
New contributor
answered 5 hours ago
guest271314guest271314
1155
1155
New contributor
New contributor
6
So your source is a comedy act? All of the "etymologies" he gives are highly questionable (if he's even serious), especially the one for "honky" given that the term was used as a slur by whites for foreigners and factory workers well before it was used as a slur by black people for whites in general. (For the earlier meaning, see for example here)
– Laurel
4 hours ago
@Laurel, Re "a comedy act": not in this context, no. Which is to say comedians usually, (or perhaps must invariably), have their serious sides, and a wide variety of pre- and post-comedy vocations and interests.
– agc
1 hour ago
add a comment |
6
So your source is a comedy act? All of the "etymologies" he gives are highly questionable (if he's even serious), especially the one for "honky" given that the term was used as a slur by whites for foreigners and factory workers well before it was used as a slur by black people for whites in general. (For the earlier meaning, see for example here)
– Laurel
4 hours ago
@Laurel, Re "a comedy act": not in this context, no. Which is to say comedians usually, (or perhaps must invariably), have their serious sides, and a wide variety of pre- and post-comedy vocations and interests.
– agc
1 hour ago
6
6
So your source is a comedy act? All of the "etymologies" he gives are highly questionable (if he's even serious), especially the one for "honky" given that the term was used as a slur by whites for foreigners and factory workers well before it was used as a slur by black people for whites in general. (For the earlier meaning, see for example here)
– Laurel
4 hours ago
So your source is a comedy act? All of the "etymologies" he gives are highly questionable (if he's even serious), especially the one for "honky" given that the term was used as a slur by whites for foreigners and factory workers well before it was used as a slur by black people for whites in general. (For the earlier meaning, see for example here)
– Laurel
4 hours ago
@Laurel, Re "a comedy act": not in this context, no. Which is to say comedians usually, (or perhaps must invariably), have their serious sides, and a wide variety of pre- and post-comedy vocations and interests.
– agc
1 hour ago
@Laurel, Re "a comedy act": not in this context, no. Which is to say comedians usually, (or perhaps must invariably), have their serious sides, and a wide variety of pre- and post-comedy vocations and interests.
– agc
1 hour ago
add a comment |
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11
I've heard the term used in many different contexts, often with less than complimentary innuendo attached. But it's hard to believe that the origin isn't street barkers yelling "One pence a piece -- cheaper by the dozen."
– Hot Licks
12 hours ago
12
I don’t believe guest271314’s assertion. You should ask them to prove it.
– Jim
12 hours ago
2
Street barkers wouldn't have yelled "One pence apiece". "One penny", or more likely, "a penny". Pence is the plural of penny. That is not to say that "one pence" is not a thing in British usage, but it is an illiterate and non-standard thing that came in after decimalisation in 1971, when barkers were long gone.
– Michael Harvey
10 hours ago
1
@agc If accurately recollect, the knowledge of the origin or usage of the phrase was shared by the late Dick Gregory. Since Dick Gregory has thousands of hours of interviews, lectures and volumes of published literature, may take some time to locate the actual quote, or description of use of the term. It should not be surprising. The quote describes the practices of colonial and later U.S. persons and entities who experimented on prisoners of war (referred to as "slaves") by englishmen; there would be no modern medicine without those intentional diabolical practices e.g see Medical Apartheid
– guest271314
5 hours ago
1
@agc This interview begins with how the word honky came about by so-called "white" men visiting whore houses to buy sex from so-called "black" women and honking their horn. The interview also mentions the practice of young male forcing prisoners of war (so-called "slaves") to have sex with their mother in what is now called "United States": the purpose was to create more "slaves": that is where the word motherfucker comes from Dick Gregory - On Slavery, Reparations and Hurricanes. Though will continue to look for the exact reference
– guest271314
5 hours ago