Prove that the product of any two numbers between two consecutive squares is never a perfect square
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In essence, I want to prove that the product of any two distinct elements in the set ${n^2, n^2+1, ... , (n+1)^2-1}$ is never a perfect square for a positive integers $n$. I have no idea on how to prove it, but I've also yet to find a counterexample to this statement. Can anyone help?
number-theory elementary-number-theory
New contributor
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
In essence, I want to prove that the product of any two distinct elements in the set ${n^2, n^2+1, ... , (n+1)^2-1}$ is never a perfect square for a positive integers $n$. I have no idea on how to prove it, but I've also yet to find a counterexample to this statement. Can anyone help?
number-theory elementary-number-theory
New contributor
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just inequalities. All positive integers, can we have $n^2 < 2 w^2 < 2 (w+1)^2 < (n+1)^2 ; ; ? ; ;$ How about $n^2 < 3 w^2 < 3 (w+1)^2 < (n+1)^2 ; ; ? ; ;$
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– Will Jagy
9 hours ago
1
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is $n^2$ included in the set? If so, why is $(n+1)^2$ not included?
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– Dr. Mathva
9 hours ago
2
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@Dr.Mathva Because then the statement is obviously false, with (n(n+1))^2
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– gnasher729
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In essence, I want to prove that the product of any two distinct elements in the set ${n^2, n^2+1, ... , (n+1)^2-1}$ is never a perfect square for a positive integers $n$. I have no idea on how to prove it, but I've also yet to find a counterexample to this statement. Can anyone help?
number-theory elementary-number-theory
New contributor
$endgroup$
In essence, I want to prove that the product of any two distinct elements in the set ${n^2, n^2+1, ... , (n+1)^2-1}$ is never a perfect square for a positive integers $n$. I have no idea on how to prove it, but I've also yet to find a counterexample to this statement. Can anyone help?
number-theory elementary-number-theory
number-theory elementary-number-theory
New contributor
New contributor
New contributor
asked 9 hours ago
Ed TEd T
211
211
New contributor
New contributor
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just inequalities. All positive integers, can we have $n^2 < 2 w^2 < 2 (w+1)^2 < (n+1)^2 ; ; ? ; ;$ How about $n^2 < 3 w^2 < 3 (w+1)^2 < (n+1)^2 ; ; ? ; ;$
$endgroup$
– Will Jagy
9 hours ago
1
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is $n^2$ included in the set? If so, why is $(n+1)^2$ not included?
$endgroup$
– Dr. Mathva
9 hours ago
2
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@Dr.Mathva Because then the statement is obviously false, with (n(n+1))^2
$endgroup$
– gnasher729
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
just inequalities. All positive integers, can we have $n^2 < 2 w^2 < 2 (w+1)^2 < (n+1)^2 ; ; ? ; ;$ How about $n^2 < 3 w^2 < 3 (w+1)^2 < (n+1)^2 ; ; ? ; ;$
$endgroup$
– Will Jagy
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
is $n^2$ included in the set? If so, why is $(n+1)^2$ not included?
$endgroup$
– Dr. Mathva
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Dr.Mathva Because then the statement is obviously false, with (n(n+1))^2
$endgroup$
– gnasher729
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
just inequalities. All positive integers, can we have $n^2 < 2 w^2 < 2 (w+1)^2 < (n+1)^2 ; ; ? ; ;$ How about $n^2 < 3 w^2 < 3 (w+1)^2 < (n+1)^2 ; ; ? ; ;$
$endgroup$
– Will Jagy
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
just inequalities. All positive integers, can we have $n^2 < 2 w^2 < 2 (w+1)^2 < (n+1)^2 ; ; ? ; ;$ How about $n^2 < 3 w^2 < 3 (w+1)^2 < (n+1)^2 ; ; ? ; ;$
$endgroup$
– Will Jagy
9 hours ago
1
1
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is $n^2$ included in the set? If so, why is $(n+1)^2$ not included?
$endgroup$
– Dr. Mathva
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
is $n^2$ included in the set? If so, why is $(n+1)^2$ not included?
$endgroup$
– Dr. Mathva
9 hours ago
2
2
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@Dr.Mathva Because then the statement is obviously false, with (n(n+1))^2
$endgroup$
– gnasher729
9 hours ago
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@Dr.Mathva Because then the statement is obviously false, with (n(n+1))^2
$endgroup$
– gnasher729
9 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
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First, note that $n^2$ can't be one of the elements as the other element would also need to be a perfect square for the product to be a perfect square. As gnasher729 commented to the answer, this is why $left(n + 1right)^2$ is not included.
Assume there are $2$ such elements, $n^2 + a$ and $n^2 + b$, with $a neq b$, $1 le a, b le 2n$ and, WLOG, $a lt b$. Thus, consider their product to be a perfect square of some integer $p$, i.e.,
$$left(n^2 + aright)left(n^2 + bright) = p^2 tag{1}label{eq1}$$
As $n^2 + a lt p lt n^2 + b$, let
$$p = n^2 + c tag{2}label{eq2}$$
for some $a lt c lt b$. Thus, for some positive integers $d$ and $e$, we have that
$$a = c - d tag{3}label{eq3}$$
$$b = c + e tag{4}label{eq4}$$
Substitute eqref{eq2}, eqref{eq3} and eqref{eq4} into eqref{eq1} to get
$$left(n^2 + left(c - dright)right)left(n^2 + left(c + eright)right) = left(n^2 + cright)^2 tag{5}label{eq5}$$
Expanding both sides gives
$$n^4 + 2cn^2 + left(e - dright)n^2 + c^2 + cleft(e - dright) - ed = n^4 + 2cn^2 + c^2 tag{6}label{eq6}$$
Removing the common terms on both sides and moving the remaining terms, apart from the $n^2$ one, to the right gives
$$left(e - dright)n^2 = -cleft(e - dright) + ed tag{7}label{eq7}$$
Note that $e le d$ won't work because the LHS would be become non-positive but the RHS would become positive. Thus, consider $e gt d$, i.e., let
$$e = d + m, text{ with } m ge 1 tag{8}label{eq8}$$
Thus,
$$e + d lt 2n Rightarrow 2d + m lt 2n Rightarrow d lt n - frac{m}{2} tag{9}label{eq9}$$
Also,
$$ed = left(d + mright)d lt left(n + frac{m}{2}right)left(n - frac{m}{2}right) = n^2 - frac{m^2}{4} lt n^2 tag{10}label{eq10}$$
As such, the RHS of eqref{eq7} is $lt n^2$, so it can't be true.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
For any two numbers $n^2+a, n^2+b; 0<a<b<(2n+1)$, their product will satisfy $n^4<n^4+(a+b)n^2+ab<(n^2+2n+1)^2$.
All of the squares between $n^4$ and $(n^2+2n+1)^2$ will have the form $(n^2+m)^2=n^4+2mn^2+m^2; 1le mle 2n$
If $n^4+(a+b)n^2+ab$ is a perfect square, it will be one of the squares between $n^4$ and $(n^2+2n+1)^2$ and hence equal to $n^4+2mn^2+m^2$ for some $m$.
Thus $(a+b)=2m; ab=m^2$ for some $m$
Rearranging, we get $m^2=frac{a^2+2ab+b^2}{4}=ab=frac{4ab}{4}$, or $a^2+b^2=2ab$.
This implies both $amid b$ and $bmid a$, meaning $b=a$ and the numbers being multiplied to obtain a perfect square are not distinct.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Simpler: if $a+2+b^2 = 2ab$ then $(a-b)^2 = 0$ so $a = b$. Nice answer.
$endgroup$
– marty cohen
8 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
Note that $n$ is a fixed value. How do you know that, for example, $a + b = 2m - 1$ and $ab = n^2 + m^2$ can't be true instead? It might be intuitively obvious to you, & others, but it's not to me. This is why I try to explicitly show this doesn't occur in my answer.
$endgroup$
– John Omielan
8 hours ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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$begingroup$
First, note that $n^2$ can't be one of the elements as the other element would also need to be a perfect square for the product to be a perfect square. As gnasher729 commented to the answer, this is why $left(n + 1right)^2$ is not included.
Assume there are $2$ such elements, $n^2 + a$ and $n^2 + b$, with $a neq b$, $1 le a, b le 2n$ and, WLOG, $a lt b$. Thus, consider their product to be a perfect square of some integer $p$, i.e.,
$$left(n^2 + aright)left(n^2 + bright) = p^2 tag{1}label{eq1}$$
As $n^2 + a lt p lt n^2 + b$, let
$$p = n^2 + c tag{2}label{eq2}$$
for some $a lt c lt b$. Thus, for some positive integers $d$ and $e$, we have that
$$a = c - d tag{3}label{eq3}$$
$$b = c + e tag{4}label{eq4}$$
Substitute eqref{eq2}, eqref{eq3} and eqref{eq4} into eqref{eq1} to get
$$left(n^2 + left(c - dright)right)left(n^2 + left(c + eright)right) = left(n^2 + cright)^2 tag{5}label{eq5}$$
Expanding both sides gives
$$n^4 + 2cn^2 + left(e - dright)n^2 + c^2 + cleft(e - dright) - ed = n^4 + 2cn^2 + c^2 tag{6}label{eq6}$$
Removing the common terms on both sides and moving the remaining terms, apart from the $n^2$ one, to the right gives
$$left(e - dright)n^2 = -cleft(e - dright) + ed tag{7}label{eq7}$$
Note that $e le d$ won't work because the LHS would be become non-positive but the RHS would become positive. Thus, consider $e gt d$, i.e., let
$$e = d + m, text{ with } m ge 1 tag{8}label{eq8}$$
Thus,
$$e + d lt 2n Rightarrow 2d + m lt 2n Rightarrow d lt n - frac{m}{2} tag{9}label{eq9}$$
Also,
$$ed = left(d + mright)d lt left(n + frac{m}{2}right)left(n - frac{m}{2}right) = n^2 - frac{m^2}{4} lt n^2 tag{10}label{eq10}$$
As such, the RHS of eqref{eq7} is $lt n^2$, so it can't be true.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
First, note that $n^2$ can't be one of the elements as the other element would also need to be a perfect square for the product to be a perfect square. As gnasher729 commented to the answer, this is why $left(n + 1right)^2$ is not included.
Assume there are $2$ such elements, $n^2 + a$ and $n^2 + b$, with $a neq b$, $1 le a, b le 2n$ and, WLOG, $a lt b$. Thus, consider their product to be a perfect square of some integer $p$, i.e.,
$$left(n^2 + aright)left(n^2 + bright) = p^2 tag{1}label{eq1}$$
As $n^2 + a lt p lt n^2 + b$, let
$$p = n^2 + c tag{2}label{eq2}$$
for some $a lt c lt b$. Thus, for some positive integers $d$ and $e$, we have that
$$a = c - d tag{3}label{eq3}$$
$$b = c + e tag{4}label{eq4}$$
Substitute eqref{eq2}, eqref{eq3} and eqref{eq4} into eqref{eq1} to get
$$left(n^2 + left(c - dright)right)left(n^2 + left(c + eright)right) = left(n^2 + cright)^2 tag{5}label{eq5}$$
Expanding both sides gives
$$n^4 + 2cn^2 + left(e - dright)n^2 + c^2 + cleft(e - dright) - ed = n^4 + 2cn^2 + c^2 tag{6}label{eq6}$$
Removing the common terms on both sides and moving the remaining terms, apart from the $n^2$ one, to the right gives
$$left(e - dright)n^2 = -cleft(e - dright) + ed tag{7}label{eq7}$$
Note that $e le d$ won't work because the LHS would be become non-positive but the RHS would become positive. Thus, consider $e gt d$, i.e., let
$$e = d + m, text{ with } m ge 1 tag{8}label{eq8}$$
Thus,
$$e + d lt 2n Rightarrow 2d + m lt 2n Rightarrow d lt n - frac{m}{2} tag{9}label{eq9}$$
Also,
$$ed = left(d + mright)d lt left(n + frac{m}{2}right)left(n - frac{m}{2}right) = n^2 - frac{m^2}{4} lt n^2 tag{10}label{eq10}$$
As such, the RHS of eqref{eq7} is $lt n^2$, so it can't be true.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
First, note that $n^2$ can't be one of the elements as the other element would also need to be a perfect square for the product to be a perfect square. As gnasher729 commented to the answer, this is why $left(n + 1right)^2$ is not included.
Assume there are $2$ such elements, $n^2 + a$ and $n^2 + b$, with $a neq b$, $1 le a, b le 2n$ and, WLOG, $a lt b$. Thus, consider their product to be a perfect square of some integer $p$, i.e.,
$$left(n^2 + aright)left(n^2 + bright) = p^2 tag{1}label{eq1}$$
As $n^2 + a lt p lt n^2 + b$, let
$$p = n^2 + c tag{2}label{eq2}$$
for some $a lt c lt b$. Thus, for some positive integers $d$ and $e$, we have that
$$a = c - d tag{3}label{eq3}$$
$$b = c + e tag{4}label{eq4}$$
Substitute eqref{eq2}, eqref{eq3} and eqref{eq4} into eqref{eq1} to get
$$left(n^2 + left(c - dright)right)left(n^2 + left(c + eright)right) = left(n^2 + cright)^2 tag{5}label{eq5}$$
Expanding both sides gives
$$n^4 + 2cn^2 + left(e - dright)n^2 + c^2 + cleft(e - dright) - ed = n^4 + 2cn^2 + c^2 tag{6}label{eq6}$$
Removing the common terms on both sides and moving the remaining terms, apart from the $n^2$ one, to the right gives
$$left(e - dright)n^2 = -cleft(e - dright) + ed tag{7}label{eq7}$$
Note that $e le d$ won't work because the LHS would be become non-positive but the RHS would become positive. Thus, consider $e gt d$, i.e., let
$$e = d + m, text{ with } m ge 1 tag{8}label{eq8}$$
Thus,
$$e + d lt 2n Rightarrow 2d + m lt 2n Rightarrow d lt n - frac{m}{2} tag{9}label{eq9}$$
Also,
$$ed = left(d + mright)d lt left(n + frac{m}{2}right)left(n - frac{m}{2}right) = n^2 - frac{m^2}{4} lt n^2 tag{10}label{eq10}$$
As such, the RHS of eqref{eq7} is $lt n^2$, so it can't be true.
$endgroup$
First, note that $n^2$ can't be one of the elements as the other element would also need to be a perfect square for the product to be a perfect square. As gnasher729 commented to the answer, this is why $left(n + 1right)^2$ is not included.
Assume there are $2$ such elements, $n^2 + a$ and $n^2 + b$, with $a neq b$, $1 le a, b le 2n$ and, WLOG, $a lt b$. Thus, consider their product to be a perfect square of some integer $p$, i.e.,
$$left(n^2 + aright)left(n^2 + bright) = p^2 tag{1}label{eq1}$$
As $n^2 + a lt p lt n^2 + b$, let
$$p = n^2 + c tag{2}label{eq2}$$
for some $a lt c lt b$. Thus, for some positive integers $d$ and $e$, we have that
$$a = c - d tag{3}label{eq3}$$
$$b = c + e tag{4}label{eq4}$$
Substitute eqref{eq2}, eqref{eq3} and eqref{eq4} into eqref{eq1} to get
$$left(n^2 + left(c - dright)right)left(n^2 + left(c + eright)right) = left(n^2 + cright)^2 tag{5}label{eq5}$$
Expanding both sides gives
$$n^4 + 2cn^2 + left(e - dright)n^2 + c^2 + cleft(e - dright) - ed = n^4 + 2cn^2 + c^2 tag{6}label{eq6}$$
Removing the common terms on both sides and moving the remaining terms, apart from the $n^2$ one, to the right gives
$$left(e - dright)n^2 = -cleft(e - dright) + ed tag{7}label{eq7}$$
Note that $e le d$ won't work because the LHS would be become non-positive but the RHS would become positive. Thus, consider $e gt d$, i.e., let
$$e = d + m, text{ with } m ge 1 tag{8}label{eq8}$$
Thus,
$$e + d lt 2n Rightarrow 2d + m lt 2n Rightarrow d lt n - frac{m}{2} tag{9}label{eq9}$$
Also,
$$ed = left(d + mright)d lt left(n + frac{m}{2}right)left(n - frac{m}{2}right) = n^2 - frac{m^2}{4} lt n^2 tag{10}label{eq10}$$
As such, the RHS of eqref{eq7} is $lt n^2$, so it can't be true.
answered 8 hours ago
John OmielanJohn Omielan
2,834212
2,834212
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For any two numbers $n^2+a, n^2+b; 0<a<b<(2n+1)$, their product will satisfy $n^4<n^4+(a+b)n^2+ab<(n^2+2n+1)^2$.
All of the squares between $n^4$ and $(n^2+2n+1)^2$ will have the form $(n^2+m)^2=n^4+2mn^2+m^2; 1le mle 2n$
If $n^4+(a+b)n^2+ab$ is a perfect square, it will be one of the squares between $n^4$ and $(n^2+2n+1)^2$ and hence equal to $n^4+2mn^2+m^2$ for some $m$.
Thus $(a+b)=2m; ab=m^2$ for some $m$
Rearranging, we get $m^2=frac{a^2+2ab+b^2}{4}=ab=frac{4ab}{4}$, or $a^2+b^2=2ab$.
This implies both $amid b$ and $bmid a$, meaning $b=a$ and the numbers being multiplied to obtain a perfect square are not distinct.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Simpler: if $a+2+b^2 = 2ab$ then $(a-b)^2 = 0$ so $a = b$. Nice answer.
$endgroup$
– marty cohen
8 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
Note that $n$ is a fixed value. How do you know that, for example, $a + b = 2m - 1$ and $ab = n^2 + m^2$ can't be true instead? It might be intuitively obvious to you, & others, but it's not to me. This is why I try to explicitly show this doesn't occur in my answer.
$endgroup$
– John Omielan
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For any two numbers $n^2+a, n^2+b; 0<a<b<(2n+1)$, their product will satisfy $n^4<n^4+(a+b)n^2+ab<(n^2+2n+1)^2$.
All of the squares between $n^4$ and $(n^2+2n+1)^2$ will have the form $(n^2+m)^2=n^4+2mn^2+m^2; 1le mle 2n$
If $n^4+(a+b)n^2+ab$ is a perfect square, it will be one of the squares between $n^4$ and $(n^2+2n+1)^2$ and hence equal to $n^4+2mn^2+m^2$ for some $m$.
Thus $(a+b)=2m; ab=m^2$ for some $m$
Rearranging, we get $m^2=frac{a^2+2ab+b^2}{4}=ab=frac{4ab}{4}$, or $a^2+b^2=2ab$.
This implies both $amid b$ and $bmid a$, meaning $b=a$ and the numbers being multiplied to obtain a perfect square are not distinct.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Simpler: if $a+2+b^2 = 2ab$ then $(a-b)^2 = 0$ so $a = b$. Nice answer.
$endgroup$
– marty cohen
8 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
Note that $n$ is a fixed value. How do you know that, for example, $a + b = 2m - 1$ and $ab = n^2 + m^2$ can't be true instead? It might be intuitively obvious to you, & others, but it's not to me. This is why I try to explicitly show this doesn't occur in my answer.
$endgroup$
– John Omielan
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For any two numbers $n^2+a, n^2+b; 0<a<b<(2n+1)$, their product will satisfy $n^4<n^4+(a+b)n^2+ab<(n^2+2n+1)^2$.
All of the squares between $n^4$ and $(n^2+2n+1)^2$ will have the form $(n^2+m)^2=n^4+2mn^2+m^2; 1le mle 2n$
If $n^4+(a+b)n^2+ab$ is a perfect square, it will be one of the squares between $n^4$ and $(n^2+2n+1)^2$ and hence equal to $n^4+2mn^2+m^2$ for some $m$.
Thus $(a+b)=2m; ab=m^2$ for some $m$
Rearranging, we get $m^2=frac{a^2+2ab+b^2}{4}=ab=frac{4ab}{4}$, or $a^2+b^2=2ab$.
This implies both $amid b$ and $bmid a$, meaning $b=a$ and the numbers being multiplied to obtain a perfect square are not distinct.
$endgroup$
For any two numbers $n^2+a, n^2+b; 0<a<b<(2n+1)$, their product will satisfy $n^4<n^4+(a+b)n^2+ab<(n^2+2n+1)^2$.
All of the squares between $n^4$ and $(n^2+2n+1)^2$ will have the form $(n^2+m)^2=n^4+2mn^2+m^2; 1le mle 2n$
If $n^4+(a+b)n^2+ab$ is a perfect square, it will be one of the squares between $n^4$ and $(n^2+2n+1)^2$ and hence equal to $n^4+2mn^2+m^2$ for some $m$.
Thus $(a+b)=2m; ab=m^2$ for some $m$
Rearranging, we get $m^2=frac{a^2+2ab+b^2}{4}=ab=frac{4ab}{4}$, or $a^2+b^2=2ab$.
This implies both $amid b$ and $bmid a$, meaning $b=a$ and the numbers being multiplied to obtain a perfect square are not distinct.
answered 8 hours ago
Keith BackmanKeith Backman
1,3681812
1,3681812
1
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Simpler: if $a+2+b^2 = 2ab$ then $(a-b)^2 = 0$ so $a = b$. Nice answer.
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– marty cohen
8 hours ago
3
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Note that $n$ is a fixed value. How do you know that, for example, $a + b = 2m - 1$ and $ab = n^2 + m^2$ can't be true instead? It might be intuitively obvious to you, & others, but it's not to me. This is why I try to explicitly show this doesn't occur in my answer.
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– John Omielan
8 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Simpler: if $a+2+b^2 = 2ab$ then $(a-b)^2 = 0$ so $a = b$. Nice answer.
$endgroup$
– marty cohen
8 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
Note that $n$ is a fixed value. How do you know that, for example, $a + b = 2m - 1$ and $ab = n^2 + m^2$ can't be true instead? It might be intuitively obvious to you, & others, but it's not to me. This is why I try to explicitly show this doesn't occur in my answer.
$endgroup$
– John Omielan
8 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Simpler: if $a+2+b^2 = 2ab$ then $(a-b)^2 = 0$ so $a = b$. Nice answer.
$endgroup$
– marty cohen
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Simpler: if $a+2+b^2 = 2ab$ then $(a-b)^2 = 0$ so $a = b$. Nice answer.
$endgroup$
– marty cohen
8 hours ago
3
3
$begingroup$
Note that $n$ is a fixed value. How do you know that, for example, $a + b = 2m - 1$ and $ab = n^2 + m^2$ can't be true instead? It might be intuitively obvious to you, & others, but it's not to me. This is why I try to explicitly show this doesn't occur in my answer.
$endgroup$
– John Omielan
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Note that $n$ is a fixed value. How do you know that, for example, $a + b = 2m - 1$ and $ab = n^2 + m^2$ can't be true instead? It might be intuitively obvious to you, & others, but it's not to me. This is why I try to explicitly show this doesn't occur in my answer.
$endgroup$
– John Omielan
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Ed T is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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$begingroup$
just inequalities. All positive integers, can we have $n^2 < 2 w^2 < 2 (w+1)^2 < (n+1)^2 ; ; ? ; ;$ How about $n^2 < 3 w^2 < 3 (w+1)^2 < (n+1)^2 ; ; ? ; ;$
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– Will Jagy
9 hours ago
1
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is $n^2$ included in the set? If so, why is $(n+1)^2$ not included?
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– Dr. Mathva
9 hours ago
2
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@Dr.Mathva Because then the statement is obviously false, with (n(n+1))^2
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– gnasher729
9 hours ago