Definition of Nationalism/Nationalist/Nationalistic
I recently got into discussion with someone about the definition of these words:
- Nationalist
- Nationalism
From the onset I used the Oxford Dictionary as my go-to for saying 'I am a Nationalist, in that I advocate political independence for a country'.
However the other person seemed to have a different idea of what a Nationalist was. This got us looking at Nationalism's definition and so on.
So now I have a range of questions ...
Oxford Dictionary shows the definition for Nationalist like so:
A person who advocates political independence for a country.
1.1 A person with strong patriotic feelings, especially one who believes in the superiority of their country over others.
The problem here is that by the definition on the first line (Is this the "Primary" definition? Is there such a thing as a "Primary", "Secondary" etc .. definition?), I would call myself a Nationalist, but by the definition at 1.1 I would not. Reason being that while I might think of myself as being patriotic I would not use a term like 'strongly' as I find it too subjective, and then the 'superiority of their country over others' part is not clear to me - is this saying 'superiority of their country over all others' or 'over any others' (I assumed the latter)?
And then if I look at the definition of Nationalism it gets me confused again.
Patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
1.1 An extreme form of patriotism marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries.
1.2 Advocacy of political independence for a particular country.
Here the "primary" definition of Nationalist has been placed at position 1.2 for Nationalism, while the 1.1 definition of Nationalist has retained it's place in the definition of Nationalism.
So can I call myself a Nationalist if
a) I 'advocate political independence for a country', but
b) my sense of patriotism is not 'marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries'?
meaning
asked Sep 5 '17 at 11:44
zetheroozetheroo
62
|
show 13 more comments
I recently got into discussion with someone about the definition of these words:
- Nationalist
- Nationalism
From the onset I used the Oxford Dictionary as my go-to for saying 'I am a Nationalist, in that I advocate political independence for a country'.
However the other person seemed to have a different idea of what a Nationalist was. This got us looking at Nationalism's definition and so on.
So now I have a range of questions ...
Oxford Dictionary shows the definition for Nationalist like so:
A person who advocates political independence for a country.
1.1 A person with strong patriotic feelings, especially one who believes in the superiority of their country over others.
The problem here is that by the definition on the first line (Is this the "Primary" definition? Is there such a thing as a "Primary", "Secondary" etc .. definition?), I would call myself a Nationalist, but by the definition at 1.1 I would not. Reason being that while I might think of myself as being patriotic I would not use a term like 'strongly' as I find it too subjective, and then the 'superiority of their country over others' part is not clear to me - is this saying 'superiority of their country over all others' or 'over any others' (I assumed the latter)?
And then if I look at the definition of Nationalism it gets me confused again.
Patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
1.1 An extreme form of patriotism marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries.
1.2 Advocacy of political independence for a particular country.
Here the "primary" definition of Nationalist has been placed at position 1.2 for Nationalism, while the 1.1 definition of Nationalist has retained it's place in the definition of Nationalism.
So can I call myself a Nationalist if
a) I 'advocate political independence for a country', but
b) my sense of patriotism is not 'marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries'?
meaning
asked Sep 5 '17 at 11:44
zetheroozetheroo
62
The senses should be listed in order of frequency of usage (except in historical dictionaries like OED, where they're listed in order of first appearance). However, if you check in M-W, you'll see that they list the senses in a different order. When polysemes are involved (and that's usually the case), it's essential to define terms before you start your discussion.
– Edwin Ashworth
Sep 5 '17 at 11:48
2
These terms are highly charged, politically, and will mean different things in different political environments. And the three terms all refer to the same concepts, but a given term may be adopted by a particular political movement and acquire more implications as a result. But these implications would not generally carry outside of the given political environment.
– Hot Licks
Sep 5 '17 at 12:06
2
If your country is already independent, then you can't be a nationalist in the first sense (desiring independence for your country). If you're a nationalist in a country that's already independent then you must be a nationalist in the second sense (patriotic to the point of denigrating people from other countries).
– The Photon
Sep 5 '17 at 19:07
1
@HotLicks, Yes, it would have been more accurate to say, if your country is already independent, and you declare yourself a nationalist, other people will assume you mean it in the 2nd sense.
– The Photon
Sep 6 '17 at 1:24
2
The ambiguousness of terms sadly pervades a lot of arguments. People take as gospel the definitions they think are the only ones / the definitions they were once taught / the definitions they think should be the ones used, and get into bunfights with those holding conflicting views. The only people who are correct are the ones who have checked in various different respected reference works and realise that, if orders of listings differ, or if they are using a 'secondary' sense, they must specify which sense they are choosing to use.
– Edwin Ashworth
Sep 6 '17 at 22:02
|
show 13 more comments
I recently got into discussion with someone about the definition of these words:
- Nationalist
- Nationalism
From the onset I used the Oxford Dictionary as my go-to for saying 'I am a Nationalist, in that I advocate political independence for a country'.
However the other person seemed to have a different idea of what a Nationalist was. This got us looking at Nationalism's definition and so on.
So now I have a range of questions ...
Oxford Dictionary shows the definition for Nationalist like so:
A person who advocates political independence for a country.
1.1 A person with strong patriotic feelings, especially one who believes in the superiority of their country over others.
The problem here is that by the definition on the first line (Is this the "Primary" definition? Is there such a thing as a "Primary", "Secondary" etc .. definition?), I would call myself a Nationalist, but by the definition at 1.1 I would not. Reason being that while I might think of myself as being patriotic I would not use a term like 'strongly' as I find it too subjective, and then the 'superiority of their country over others' part is not clear to me - is this saying 'superiority of their country over all others' or 'over any others' (I assumed the latter)?
And then if I look at the definition of Nationalism it gets me confused again.
Patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
1.1 An extreme form of patriotism marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries.
1.2 Advocacy of political independence for a particular country.
Here the "primary" definition of Nationalist has been placed at position 1.2 for Nationalism, while the 1.1 definition of Nationalist has retained it's place in the definition of Nationalism.
So can I call myself a Nationalist if
a) I 'advocate political independence for a country', but
b) my sense of patriotism is not 'marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries'?
meaning
asked Sep 5 '17 at 11:44
zetheroozetheroo
62
I recently got into discussion with someone about the definition of these words:
- Nationalist
- Nationalism
From the onset I used the Oxford Dictionary as my go-to for saying 'I am a Nationalist, in that I advocate political independence for a country'.
However the other person seemed to have a different idea of what a Nationalist was. This got us looking at Nationalism's definition and so on.
So now I have a range of questions ...
Oxford Dictionary shows the definition for Nationalist like so:
A person who advocates political independence for a country.
1.1 A person with strong patriotic feelings, especially one who believes in the superiority of their country over others.
The problem here is that by the definition on the first line (Is this the "Primary" definition? Is there such a thing as a "Primary", "Secondary" etc .. definition?), I would call myself a Nationalist, but by the definition at 1.1 I would not. Reason being that while I might think of myself as being patriotic I would not use a term like 'strongly' as I find it too subjective, and then the 'superiority of their country over others' part is not clear to me - is this saying 'superiority of their country over all others' or 'over any others' (I assumed the latter)?
And then if I look at the definition of Nationalism it gets me confused again.
Patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
1.1 An extreme form of patriotism marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries.
1.2 Advocacy of political independence for a particular country.
Here the "primary" definition of Nationalist has been placed at position 1.2 for Nationalism, while the 1.1 definition of Nationalist has retained it's place in the definition of Nationalism.
So can I call myself a Nationalist if
a) I 'advocate political independence for a country', but
b) my sense of patriotism is not 'marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries'?
meaning
meaning
asked Sep 5 '17 at 11:44
zetheroozetheroo
62
asked Sep 5 '17 at 11:44
zetheroozetheroo
62
edited Sep 6 '17 at 10:20
zetheroo
asked Sep 5 '17 at 11:44
zetheroozetheroo
62
asked Sep 5 '17 at 11:44
zetheroozetheroo
62
asked Sep 5 '17 at 11:44
zetheroozetheroo
62
62
The senses should be listed in order of frequency of usage (except in historical dictionaries like OED, where they're listed in order of first appearance). However, if you check in M-W, you'll see that they list the senses in a different order. When polysemes are involved (and that's usually the case), it's essential to define terms before you start your discussion.
– Edwin Ashworth
Sep 5 '17 at 11:48
2
These terms are highly charged, politically, and will mean different things in different political environments. And the three terms all refer to the same concepts, but a given term may be adopted by a particular political movement and acquire more implications as a result. But these implications would not generally carry outside of the given political environment.
– Hot Licks
Sep 5 '17 at 12:06
2
If your country is already independent, then you can't be a nationalist in the first sense (desiring independence for your country). If you're a nationalist in a country that's already independent then you must be a nationalist in the second sense (patriotic to the point of denigrating people from other countries).
– The Photon
Sep 5 '17 at 19:07
1
@HotLicks, Yes, it would have been more accurate to say, if your country is already independent, and you declare yourself a nationalist, other people will assume you mean it in the 2nd sense.
– The Photon
Sep 6 '17 at 1:24
2
The ambiguousness of terms sadly pervades a lot of arguments. People take as gospel the definitions they think are the only ones / the definitions they were once taught / the definitions they think should be the ones used, and get into bunfights with those holding conflicting views. The only people who are correct are the ones who have checked in various different respected reference works and realise that, if orders of listings differ, or if they are using a 'secondary' sense, they must specify which sense they are choosing to use.
– Edwin Ashworth
Sep 6 '17 at 22:02
|
show 13 more comments
The senses should be listed in order of frequency of usage (except in historical dictionaries like OED, where they're listed in order of first appearance). However, if you check in M-W, you'll see that they list the senses in a different order. When polysemes are involved (and that's usually the case), it's essential to define terms before you start your discussion.
– Edwin Ashworth
Sep 5 '17 at 11:48
2
These terms are highly charged, politically, and will mean different things in different political environments. And the three terms all refer to the same concepts, but a given term may be adopted by a particular political movement and acquire more implications as a result. But these implications would not generally carry outside of the given political environment.
– Hot Licks
Sep 5 '17 at 12:06
2
If your country is already independent, then you can't be a nationalist in the first sense (desiring independence for your country). If you're a nationalist in a country that's already independent then you must be a nationalist in the second sense (patriotic to the point of denigrating people from other countries).
– The Photon
Sep 5 '17 at 19:07
1
@HotLicks, Yes, it would have been more accurate to say, if your country is already independent, and you declare yourself a nationalist, other people will assume you mean it in the 2nd sense.
– The Photon
Sep 6 '17 at 1:24
2
The ambiguousness of terms sadly pervades a lot of arguments. People take as gospel the definitions they think are the only ones / the definitions they were once taught / the definitions they think should be the ones used, and get into bunfights with those holding conflicting views. The only people who are correct are the ones who have checked in various different respected reference works and realise that, if orders of listings differ, or if they are using a 'secondary' sense, they must specify which sense they are choosing to use.
– Edwin Ashworth
Sep 6 '17 at 22:02
The senses should be listed in order of frequency of usage (except in historical dictionaries like OED, where they're listed in order of first appearance). However, if you check in M-W, you'll see that they list the senses in a different order. When polysemes are involved (and that's usually the case), it's essential to define terms before you start your discussion.
– Edwin Ashworth
Sep 5 '17 at 11:48
The senses should be listed in order of frequency of usage (except in historical dictionaries like OED, where they're listed in order of first appearance). However, if you check in M-W, you'll see that they list the senses in a different order. When polysemes are involved (and that's usually the case), it's essential to define terms before you start your discussion.
– Edwin Ashworth
Sep 5 '17 at 11:48
2
2
These terms are highly charged, politically, and will mean different things in different political environments. And the three terms all refer to the same concepts, but a given term may be adopted by a particular political movement and acquire more implications as a result. But these implications would not generally carry outside of the given political environment.
– Hot Licks
Sep 5 '17 at 12:06
These terms are highly charged, politically, and will mean different things in different political environments. And the three terms all refer to the same concepts, but a given term may be adopted by a particular political movement and acquire more implications as a result. But these implications would not generally carry outside of the given political environment.
– Hot Licks
Sep 5 '17 at 12:06
2
2
If your country is already independent, then you can't be a nationalist in the first sense (desiring independence for your country). If you're a nationalist in a country that's already independent then you must be a nationalist in the second sense (patriotic to the point of denigrating people from other countries).
– The Photon
Sep 5 '17 at 19:07
If your country is already independent, then you can't be a nationalist in the first sense (desiring independence for your country). If you're a nationalist in a country that's already independent then you must be a nationalist in the second sense (patriotic to the point of denigrating people from other countries).
– The Photon
Sep 5 '17 at 19:07
1
1
@HotLicks, Yes, it would have been more accurate to say, if your country is already independent, and you declare yourself a nationalist, other people will assume you mean it in the 2nd sense.
– The Photon
Sep 6 '17 at 1:24
@HotLicks, Yes, it would have been more accurate to say, if your country is already independent, and you declare yourself a nationalist, other people will assume you mean it in the 2nd sense.
– The Photon
Sep 6 '17 at 1:24
2
2
The ambiguousness of terms sadly pervades a lot of arguments. People take as gospel the definitions they think are the only ones / the definitions they were once taught / the definitions they think should be the ones used, and get into bunfights with those holding conflicting views. The only people who are correct are the ones who have checked in various different respected reference works and realise that, if orders of listings differ, or if they are using a 'secondary' sense, they must specify which sense they are choosing to use.
– Edwin Ashworth
Sep 6 '17 at 22:02
The ambiguousness of terms sadly pervades a lot of arguments. People take as gospel the definitions they think are the only ones / the definitions they were once taught / the definitions they think should be the ones used, and get into bunfights with those holding conflicting views. The only people who are correct are the ones who have checked in various different respected reference works and realise that, if orders of listings differ, or if they are using a 'secondary' sense, they must specify which sense they are choosing to use.
– Edwin Ashworth
Sep 6 '17 at 22:02
|
show 13 more comments
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The senses should be listed in order of frequency of usage (except in historical dictionaries like OED, where they're listed in order of first appearance). However, if you check in M-W, you'll see that they list the senses in a different order. When polysemes are involved (and that's usually the case), it's essential to define terms before you start your discussion.
– Edwin Ashworth
Sep 5 '17 at 11:48
2
These terms are highly charged, politically, and will mean different things in different political environments. And the three terms all refer to the same concepts, but a given term may be adopted by a particular political movement and acquire more implications as a result. But these implications would not generally carry outside of the given political environment.
– Hot Licks
Sep 5 '17 at 12:06
2
If your country is already independent, then you can't be a nationalist in the first sense (desiring independence for your country). If you're a nationalist in a country that's already independent then you must be a nationalist in the second sense (patriotic to the point of denigrating people from other countries).
– The Photon
Sep 5 '17 at 19:07
1
@HotLicks, Yes, it would have been more accurate to say, if your country is already independent, and you declare yourself a nationalist, other people will assume you mean it in the 2nd sense.
– The Photon
Sep 6 '17 at 1:24
2
The ambiguousness of terms sadly pervades a lot of arguments. People take as gospel the definitions they think are the only ones / the definitions they were once taught / the definitions they think should be the ones used, and get into bunfights with those holding conflicting views. The only people who are correct are the ones who have checked in various different respected reference works and realise that, if orders of listings differ, or if they are using a 'secondary' sense, they must specify which sense they are choosing to use.
– Edwin Ashworth
Sep 6 '17 at 22:02